And I think an organisation covering for pedophiles and murdering kids in their schools have no moral high ground and it is definitely unfit to lecture anyone on human dignity.
Eat a bag of dicks Francis
Exactly. There people are a threat, not role models.
The Vatican said Pope Francis had approved the document, which also reaffirms its condemnation of surrogacy, saying the practice represents “a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child”.
“A child is always a gift and never the basis of a commercial contract,” the document says. “Every human life, beginning with that of the unborn child in its mother’s womb, cannot be suppressed, nor become an object of commodity.”
The ethical problems with surrogacy are real, but they're not about the child. They're about income inequality and putting adult women through a physically traumatic, dangerous, and possibly life-changing experience for money. If we were able to use artificial wombs for "surrogacy" (I know, it's technically not the same thing), I think people would see it as nothing but a new type of fertility medicine.
My cousin did it because she wanted to help someone have a child. She didn’t do it for the money. When it’s a financial transaction, I see the issue.
It also helps LBGT couples who can't have children get them. I don't see an issue even if there is money involved if it is clearly not coerced.
The issue is ensuring its clearly not coerced, which is effectively impossible in practice. Unfortunately it's one of those things where once you allow people to be paid for it, it's gets really, really dark, really, really quickly.
I don't think it's impossible at all. If the surrogate knows the person or people who want the child personally, it's almost certainly not coerced even if money changes hands.
Exactly. My cousin liked being pregnant but they already had five kids. Yes; she was paid but the money was token. It paid for medical care, food, etc. to her it was about helping someone.
How about you work on your age-of-concent-fluidity problems first.
Then there's spreading HIV in Africa (and other parts of the world) by preaching against using condoms. How many millions have died of AIDS because the Catholic church told them or their partner not to wear a condom?
There wouldn’t be many people left if all the pedos got removed.
The Vatican is still covering up little boy rape, right?
They're definitely covering for little girl rape too
I say diddling kids is a threat to human dignity.
That's where you and the pope will just have to agree to disagree.
idk, seems like forced birth and pedophilia are bigger threats to the dignity of the woman and the child than surrogacy
The Vatican has described the belief in gender fluidity as “a concession to the age-old temptation to make oneself God”
Better update the bible in English to refer to god as "they" instead of always using male pronouns, then.
I mean, no update needed:
Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
So God created humans in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
This passage uses a plural for God and refers to the image of God as male and female (likely a remnant of when it was a divine couple before the reforms, but still).
Let this be a reminder to you that organized religion only accepts social progress when they get dragged to do it under risk of becoming irrelevant. This Pope's previous winks to the LGBT community were the bare minimum that the Catholic Church has to do in order to not to continue losing followers (and their wallets) in some countries such as Spain and Ireland. The moment a much less mainstream concept, such as gender fluidity, gets brought into the table, it's free game for them again.
Aaaaand…. Human dignity calls the Vatican archaic and obsolete.
Wouldn't depriving someone of their right to their preferred identity be considered a threat to human dignity?
All top level religious leaders are generally awful. Especially if it's Abrahamic.
If you think Buddhists are exempt, read about the Tibetan Buddhist monarchies.
Also, theocracy needs to die.
Frank, if you want to find threats to human dignity, look at your child molesting priests and your bishops covering for them. Until then, you're in no place to judge.
Ah yes, recknognizing that human beings come in many different forms is the "threat to human dignity", and definitely not the practice of trying to aggressively (even violently) shoehorn others into neat, convenient categories. 🙄
Yes, because living your desires as your true self is no way to find dignity. And surrogacy?! Like…what.
Ah yes, it is uniquely dignified to hate your body and feel like an alien inside it.
The only threat to human dignity here is child-rapists being considered the experts on morality.
Conservatism is a vile plague and religion a tool of conservatism. There is no greater threat to humanity than conservative religious people.
Letting people live the life they chose for themselves: unacceptable!
Forcing them to be unhappy and never find peace with themselves: just as god intended.
there's the catholic church that I knew and hated.
I wonder why multiple adults beating the shit out of 6 year old me with yardsticks wasn't a threat to human dignity.
Agreed. Being slightly less of an asshole than one”s predecessor is definitely not the same as being “cool”.
The woke pope got lame.
He never was. He's just a Pope John Paul II who hasn't had a photoshoot with a brutal dictator yet.
Fuck the vatican
Boo!
Boo, again I say!
It makes life so much harder for Trans living in parts of the world where Catholicism is still relevant.
Get Fucked Pedo Leader!!!
LOL, every single surrogate I've ever met personally, with the exception of one, has been a staunch Christian.
And thr vatican can fuck right off with their outdated world view.
Wonder why they’re losing so many followers
It's important to note that all the times he's been the "cool pope" he's prefaced all his statements with the phrase "ex cathedra", which means he's speaking as himself, not "the Pope". Because anything he says as "the Pope" is the official church position.
A community for discussing events around the World
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
