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submitted 7 months ago by slaacaa@lemmy.world to c/games@lemmy.world
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[-] slaacaa@lemmy.world 511 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The most depressing thing I’ve seen related to this topic. A small team that worked incredibly hard were lucky enough to achieve the impossible, and now they watch without any control as it is taken from them, for no other reason than greed.

Due to unchecked neoliberal capitalism, big companies like Sony already cover so much of the developed markets, that they have no way to naturally grow more. So they are forced to squeeze more out of what they already have, as stagnation is not accepted in this hellish system.

The line must go up, whatever the cost!

Edit: damn, Sony actually listened

[-] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 162 points 7 months ago

The line must go up, whatever the cost!

Including lying, controlling narratives, committing outright fraud, controlling the fate of companies through "consultants", changing the definition of Recession, killing of whistleblowers, killing of journalists who help whistleblowers, to name just a very short few.

This system blows, how many millenia does it fucking take to figure that out?

[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 136 points 7 months ago

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

-Upton Sinclair

[-] inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 53 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Jurgis recollected how, when he had first come to Packingtown, he had stood and watched the hog-killing, and thought how cruel and savage it was, and come away congratulating himself that he was not a hog; now his new acquaintance showed him that a hog was just what he had been-one of the packers' hogs. What they wanted from a hog was all the profits that could be got out of him; and that was what they wanted from the workingman, and also that was what they wanted from the public. What the hog thought of it, and what he suffered, were not considered; and no more was it with labor, and no more with the purchaser of meat. That was true everywhere in the world, but it was especially true in Packingtown; there seemed to be something about the work of slaughtering that tended to ruthlessness and ferocity-it was literally the fact that in the methods of the packers a hundred human lives did not balance a penny of profit.

  • Upton Sinclair

I read The Jungle a few months ago and its aged so depressingly well. Nothing has changed, it was obvious what was happening long ago, but we've done nothing but watch it get worse.

[-] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 19 points 7 months ago

"The Jungle" famously spurred large reforms. The FDA exists and has a lot of power because people were disgusted by what they read.

That's why you're reading a hundred-year-old book: it was influential.

[-] inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

it was influential.

But only on one topic. Yes the FDA was created in large part from outrage over food condtions described in the book. But that really is only one chapter of the text, the majority of it deals with the exploration of workers in ALL sorts of industries (not just food), how preadatory home loans lead to finical ruins, how voting systems are rigged and how our policing system only produces more experienced criminals, not reform.

The last 2-3 chapters are explicitly socialist talking points that are still being said, for good reason, today. If the book was as influential as Sinclair wanted it to be, then we would've seen FAR FAR FAR more than the FDA.

I mean, heck, reread the passage I copied in. It's not really about food.

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[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 16 points 7 months ago

We haven't done nothing. There's Rojava and the EZLN building whole competing systems. There's loads of people doing mutual aid or building cooperative economic structures all over the world, and those movements are gaining a lot of traction as people are waking up to how shit things are.

You don't usually hear about all these projects, in the same way you may not notice termites hollowing out a structure until it's far too late to save it.

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[-] Iapar@feddit.de 117 points 7 months ago

The lesson we learn here is that you don't take money from the mob.

Don't go public with youre company.

Don't get involved with the devil.

[-] JDPoZ@lemmy.world 91 points 7 months ago

Said this in another thread :

First off - yes Sony is in the wrong.

Second - Helldivers ain’t Flappy Bird. Making an online multiplayer game that needs the ability to do reliable matchmaking across multiple platforms with hundreds of thousands of players out there needs MASSIVE network and infrastructure support…

So you may say “don’t take money from the mob,” but this is more a situation of where if they HADN’T taken Sony’s support, they likely wouldn’t have been able to have the resources to have done all that themselves which could have made the difference between their great success and failure.

Remember that the first helldivers game was also a Sony published title where everything worked out fine for everyone then… but mostly because it wasn’t near as big a success story and making headlines but was instead a far more niche title lost mostly in the noise of smaller dev Sony titles.

I’m sure arrowhead has learned its lesson now and it will likely able probably to flex its muscles in the future thanks to its success financially - as I’m sure lots of publishers will be now coming at them with much more lucrative and favorable contract deals going forward, but they probably would not have been able to do what they wanted to do at the scale that they have been able to had Sony not been there to help provide that initial capital and infrastructure support.

This is Sony’s fault fully. The guys at Arrowhead are just wanting to have the means to make good games. They needed the resources to launch successfully and pretending it would have been feasible otherwise without said resources is sadly… naive.

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[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

The most depressing thing I’ve seen related to this topic. A small team that worked incredibly hard were lucky enough to achieve the impossible, and now they watch without any control as it is taken from them, for no other reason than greed.

KSP's original team must feel the same way

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[-] resetbypeer@lemmy.world 124 points 7 months ago

Sony just did a Unity here. How the hell can you ruin such a beloved game in a single cheer stupid move, for the purpose of just gathering data. It's beyond me.

[-] masterspace@lemmy.ca 132 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I feel like Sony did a Sony here.

I'm old enough to remember when Sony shipped 22 million malware infested CDs because they were worried about Napster.

[-] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 34 points 7 months ago

Also earlier this year they stole purchased content from millions of their customers

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[-] warm@kbin.earth 63 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Sony being scumbags? Who saw that coming? They definitely don't have that reputation...

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[-] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com 57 points 7 months ago

It's not fair the developers take the heat for this. We should learn to find the right people to complain to.

[-] Chozo@fedia.io 126 points 7 months ago

That's why Spitz said to be angry in the Steam reviews instead of their Discord. People mistakenly took it as a dismissive whine, but that was actually a very important comment that I feel many people overlooked. Sony ain't gonna do anything differently unless there is actual, tangible damage to their brand. That damage doesn't come from chat rooms, that comes from storefront reviews.

Keep the bad reviews coming if you want any hope of Sony relenting.

[-] kautau@lemmy.world 65 points 7 months ago

Doing a pretty good job so far

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[-] henfredemars@infosec.pub 41 points 7 months ago

I really hope Steam doesn't consider this "review bombing" and take down such reviews. The response is entirely justified.

[-] 8ender@lemmy.world 51 points 7 months ago

Good guy Valve appears to be quietly figuring out refunds for folks, even though almost all are above the hours played limit

[-] EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 42 points 7 months ago

Reminder that the hours played rule is only a limit for the automated refund system. You can request a refund for a game at any time for any reason. It just has to be manually reviewed and deemed justified by a person.

[-] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

I wonder if it’s more damage control, why are they allowing games to be sold in markets where the mandatory linking wasn’t possible?

Steam should know this limitations, the devs knew about the requirements from Sony, it was listed on the store page since it was listed.

[-] fluckx@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago

Apparently they recently updated the store to no longer sell in unavailable psn regions.

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[-] Veraxus@lemmy.world 55 points 7 months ago
[-] resetbypeer@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago

This is good, but I think there needs to be some regulations. Companies keep introducing all sorts of anti-consumer practices to fuck over users (not only in gaming land). Now it got (for the time being) reverted, but the trust has (again) been broken.

Consumers (should) buy something based on what has been presented at the point of time. If that changes in the future with negative effects for consumers, than this should get investigated and ultimately penalized. Companies have become too big and too powerful, which can lead to shit like this

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[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 51 points 7 months ago

Take Two interactive is really lucky this happened right after they sacked the KSP2 team, otherwise people would be talking about that instead.

[-] mlc894@lemm.ee 22 points 7 months ago

I’m not sure ksp is popular/broad-based enough to generate much of an uproar. I’m unhappy about it, but most people just see another headline.

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[-] Nithanim@programming.dev 46 points 7 months ago

This statement reminds me awfully of the Living World Season 4 Story in Guild Wars 2.

And yes, before people become angry about this comparison: I said "reminds me", not "the same as" or anything else.

Explanation (hard spoiler!):

spoilerIn essence, you do everything you can, unite different people for the fight that determines the fate of the world. But... you lose and that was the only chance. You barely survive with your friends; but not all.

https://youtu.be/jk5nfHxyQno?t=7220

The Commander (you) are asked what to do (because you always had some kind of answers; a plan; every time). But since this was the only hope, you say "I don't know."

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[-] FatTony@lemmy.world 38 points 7 months ago

I don't know whether this is sad or really funny.

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[-] Lath@kbin.earth 29 points 7 months ago

To be fair to them, I don't know either.

[-] stardust@lemmy.ca 28 points 7 months ago

Patient gaming for the win.

[-] DogWater@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Does that really apply to a live service game?

Like I get your sentiment, and I agree....but waiting for a game like this to die and then going see it wasn't worth it good thing I waited doesn't make any sense in a general way. Like imagine waiting for destiny servers to shut down in the future and say good thing I didn't waste my time. Like yeah of course it does when the player base moves on. The point was to play it before that happened.

Like...youre right...but whats the point of saying anything. You don't like live service games because of the risk of stuff like this happening. It's not like a no man's sky thing where you wait for them to patch and offer discounts

[-] stardust@lemmy.ca 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Yes I would say so. If game doesn't show itself able to stay around for years and shuts down early like other live services games then I'd personally have considered it a waste of money due to it becoming unplayable compared to non live service games.

Most successful live services games are free too, so that's an additional uphill battle for paid live service games. It depends on if someone is willing to spend full retail money on what may be a temporary experience. I'm not one of those.

For paid online only games I don't rush in. If it seems like it will stick around after steep discounts that's when I'd be fine with spending money. If it dies before then I'm glad I didn't waste money on it. No need to be offended that I take the same approach to paid live service games as I do regular games. You can choose to pay for early access if the experience is worth it too you, and if it is worth it you should.

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[-] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

They devs say the knew of the requirement from Sony and it was also part of the store requirement since it was listed, so why would they list it for sale in those countries? It seems Steam should have some limitation in place on their end, and the Dev picks sales on Steam, not the publisher.

Theres shit to go to everyone here, not just Sony in this case. And no one seems to want to accept personal responsibility for not reading the game requirements and ignoring the splash screen when you first loaded the game. Everyone who bought and missed all the warning flags should also take a look back at themselves before complaining about something that was always going to be required and was at the very start at launch.

[-] August27th@lemmy.ca 51 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Did the CEO of Sony write this? A bait and switch scam is fine apparently, as long as there's some legalese to protect the company in there.

It seems Steam should have some limitation in place on their end, and the Dev picks sales on Steam, not the publisher.

Then what is the job of the publisher? To perpetrate scams it seems, because seemingly the devs published the game just fine all by themselves to Steam. If they didn't do that right, the publisher suddenly has no responsibility to make sure that was distributed correctly? Whose job is it to ensure the product is published in line with their inevitable goals, we wonder.

so why would they list it for sale in those countries?

Because they botched the bait and switch. And now Valve is cleaning up Sony's mess. Too bad they couldn't clean up Sony's mess of leaked customer data. I guess they can't fix it but prevent the next one by making publishers agree up front that they can't require data from players, in order to publish a game, but I digress.

no one seems to want to accept personal responsibility

No one should have to expect to be subject to a bait and switch scam in the first place. Which is what this clearly is, because if they were truly up front, they would have required the account on day one and had the appropriate region filters in place, so consumers could never be in this position.

Stop blaming the victims of corporate greed and scams; people should be able to reasonably enjoy things they paid for without being molested and exploited. Personal responsibility my ass when there should be laws to prevent this kind of thing in the first place.

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[-] ech@lemm.ee 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

and the Dev picks sales on Steam, not the publisher.

Do you happen to have a source for this? It was my understanding that the publisher handled all distribution. Hence the name. And if I'm wrong, I'd like to fix my misunderstanding.

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this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
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