Going to submit my probably-not-a-puzzle-game-game: rhythm games. The game tells you exactly what to press and when you're supposed to press it, it's just up to you to actually press the buttons. See: DDR, Rhythm Doctor.
Note that there are rhythm games that have more decision making like crypt of the necrodancer (rhythm roguelike)
Wow, so the "x" on screen means I have to press the "x" on my controler while it's highlighted!?
Damn, thanks for spoiling that puzzle!
I will grant you that, I agree.
If there is no thought required to determine the difference between a correct and incorrect choice, if its purely just 'do this' and the only difficulty is in execution, then yes I would agree this is not a puzzle.
Also, mobile idle games like clash of clans or simcity. Maybe some tactics like "I'll build this now so I can do that tomorrow" but that's not a puzzle, that is just choices.
Following this logic whole human life is a puzzle game.
That's not wrong.
Beauracracy is one big puzzle of locks and keys where applications are keys and passports are keys to border control locks etc.
It's not reductive, it's misrepresentative. A puzzle game is only a puzzle game as long as coming up with the solution is the main task. There are more than enough games where coming up with the right solution is not difficult, but performing it is.
Also the name puzzle game implies that there are designed puzzles. Any game where you have to make decisions in generated situations aren't puzzle games. For example if you take a specific chess situation and ask which move would lead to check mate in x moves then that's a chess puzzle. That doesn't make the game of chess itself a puzzle.
By your definition, Tetris is not a puzzle game.
Its generated and execution difficulty is a major factor.
According to his interpretation of the genre it would be an action-strategy game which arguably fits tetris better. Your underlying point implies that all strategy games are puzzle games which this guy doesn't agree with I think.
Speaking of chess, you might be able to argue that some old RTS games are puzzle games when playing campaign, such as the first Command & Conquer. You often have very limited resources, the AI will do specific things at specific times or with specific triggers, and you're often given specific constraints, like a time limit or keeping a specific thing alive. In this case, though, it's mostly because the AI is so primitive that almost every action is scripted in advance for that specific map.
I mean, technically, I guess (insert Futurama technical correct meme), but with that defintion everything is a puzzle.
I just breathed in, what do I do next? I can't inhale more air. I have to think fast! Maybe if I breath out, I can then breath in again... It worked! Amazing!
A very simple puzzle which our brains and bodies usually perform automatically, yet there are quite a number of situations and conditions that make breathing significantly more difficult, or where precise breathing or certain ways of breathing are skills that require mastery.
Swimming, diving, circular breathing for wind instruments, controlling your breathing while shooting, trying to calm yourself down from a panic attack, etc etc.
Okay, but pop-tarts are raviolis, not sandwiches. That doesn't even make sense. What kind of sandwich is enclosed on all sides?
A pop-tart
Listen here you little turd
Pop-tarts are dumplings for sure. They're cooked dough wrapped around a filling.
A calzone
A Snackmaster sandwich.
Ok, so games that revolve around superhuman perfect timing are kinda pushing the idea of being a puzzle game. What about gambling games, where it’s all about the RNG instead? All you do is pull the lever and hope for the best.
FPS are an adventure/puzzle game where the only solution is "USE GUN ON MAN"
Remember, no Russian
Правда?
If you define "puzzle" as a problem that you must work out with hard mental effort, then no; not at all games are puzzles. Rail shooters and other mindless games that rely more on reaction speed would not constitute a puzzle since you don't really need to even think.
Online shooter, sure. You have to think about what the other guy is gonna do. Virtua Cop? You just need to aim and shoot fast when the bad dudes appear. I mean, you could play Counter-Strike like Virtua Cop but you probably aren't gonna be good unless you're posted up with an AWP all the time.
I actually love Metal Gear Solid because its design is much like that of a puzzle game, where the puzzle is "how the fuck do I kill everyone without being seen?" Hitman is the same way, but it always felt less curated than MGS because there isn't just 1 solution to the problem, where as MGS does. And a lot of it is only conveyed through their respective scoring systems.
On the flip side, I tend to dislike leaderboards in most games because there is only 1 possible way to get the maximum possible score for any given level or minigame that once it's worked out, everyone can be at the top and the only way to truly rise above everyone is to cheat.
Any first-person-shooter is technically a point and click game.
Doesn't that just apply to life in general?
Yep, going through the first part of the ff7 remake and the combat is a puzzle. Don't do it right and get your ass kicked. MMO combat is the same: stack or die/spread or die, memories this dance, etc.
MMOs are probably the most notorious genre at this point for being extremely overproduced puzzle games.
Sure, there are different builds and strats... but its all very formulaic and boring once you find something that works.
Not to mention a huge, huge amount of them are basically just pay to win, to varying degrees, these days.
Although you could argue they do not actually have a goal... hrm.
Like obviously there are quests and goals and story arcs but technically, there probably are some mmos where you could just make your personal goal something wildly unconventional.
I haven't played many mmos in a while, but that kind of spirit seems to just only be further and further dying out, I just hope theres still some mmo it exists somewhere.
Also, technically all video games are just really long tech demos.
Yeah, I've considered, whether you could boil all games down to three aspects:
But yeah, still really reductive and I'm not sure, this is useful in any way. 🙃
Is Portal a... First Person Shooter with Puzzle Gameplay? A First Person Puzzle Game?
Is Elden Ring an extremely difficult Action RPG, or is it really just an easy Action RPG hiding behind an opaque and complex system of weapons and armor and enemy types and stats that becomes simple once a viable solution to the puzzle of stats and weapons becomes apparent after either reading a guide or just brute forcing through tens or hundreds of hours of bad solutions?
(For that matter, what even is an RPG?
Role Playing Game?
If that just means that you play a character, ie role, and it is an immersive and or compelling story and world, ok, thats a loooot of games.
Does it mean you can customize your character's appearance or weapons or stat-build? Ok tons of non RPGs allow for that, and tons of classic RPGs do not allow you to alter your character's appearance.
If it means you have the ability to put yourself into the game, make choices and do things differently in a way that meaningfully changes how the world of the game responds, then a whole lot of 'RPGs' are hardly RPGs at all, as many develop your character(s) as part of their story line to the point that many decisions presented seem entirely out of the established character's likely responses, or give the player few if any impactful choices, having a mostly or entirely linear storyline.
By that metric most immersive sims are more RPG than many 'RPGs', anything with a branching storyline or highly reactive world is as well.)
Flavor?
Basically anything that has to do with:
Oh, I thought flavor was a style of game like puzzle or rhythm.
Putting the pieces in a puzzle is an action, sliding blocks is an action, moving in maze is an action, every game is action.
We wouldn't play a game that wasn't exciting or interesting to us so they're all adventures too. If there's more than one player or a time limit of any kind it's a race, we by definition are controlling a character and playing its role so everything is an RPG...
I'm going to provide a counter-example to disprove. A slot machine is a video game that is not a puzzle since there is no solution.
I agree with "Most video games are puzzle games" though. There are exceptions like Rail Shooter. Button mash only game. Bullet hell games don't really have a puzzle element since solution is already shown by areas having no bullets in them.
I feel like this statement also hinges on "all video game strategy is a puzzle" people might disagree with.
This reminds me of an exhibiton I once saw called "No Pain, No Game". The idea being that any sort of game has some failure state, some obstacle to overcome, that's what makes it a game. So of course I started thinking of counter-examples. Your slot machine idea is a good one, what I eventually came up with is Cookie Clicker. That game is nothing but positive reinforcement. There's no way to lose progress or mess anything up, any action you take makes you "win more". Not taking an action also makes you "win more", just more slowly.
This showerthought is an idea adjacent to that all. Interesting stuff, even though it's not too deep.
Almost all video games are puzzle games because you have to figure out how tf to play them. I had to study for a while before understanding Stellaris.
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The best ones are thoughts that many people can relate to and they find something funny or interesting in regular stuff.