199
submitted 6 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] TimLovesTech@badatbeing.social 148 points 6 months ago

If you’re out there working and didn’t go to college, Joe Biden’s forgiving student loans, and you’re paying for them,” the Republican senator said on Fox News Sunday.

OK, so my pennies, which amount to a rounding error, are making it so someone else can get their head above water? What is the bad/scary/dictator part?? They are so afraid of education, as the second you can do critical thinking their whole fear mongering platform of lies falls apart.

[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 53 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

First, an educated populous brings the entire economy up. It creates new markets, new fields and industries, and more opportunities for everyone. It also takes a large chuck of the workforce into offices, labs, and around the world instead of competing with you for your machining job at the factory, which would devalue your role and result in lowering your wage, if you got the job at all.

Second, the only reason for the massive amounts of student debt is due to universities massively inflating the cost of an education to milk the government of their federal student loans. This doesn't address that directly, but it applies pressure on the government to reign in these bloated tuition and book costs that universities are pushing.

Third, if we're so afraid Joe the Plumber and the rest of the Working Class might have to help his fellow man with 3 cents of his annual tax rate, then increase the tax on the wealthy controlling class to cover it instead. The same tax bill will mean waaaaay less to them.

Edit: for clarification, that was a rebuttal to Graham's comment, not yours, OP

[-] CaptainPedantic@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

Second, the only reason for the massive amounts of student debt is due to universities massively inflating the cost of an education to milk the government of their federal student loans.

I can't speak for everywhere, but that's not true for my alma mater. Tuition has been rising because of a lack of state funding. 20 years ago, state funds made up 2/3 of the University budget. Now it's 1/3. The difference has to come from somewhere.

Go to an in-state school. Prices are lower. Go to a community college to take your desired program's prerequisites and transfer to a state university. Or just finish up a degree at a community college.

[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I don't know about your specific university, but you should also compare how much their tuition and fees have increased in that 20 years and before. Average rise in tuition and fees across the board in just the last 20 years has been 179%. Adjusted for inflation, the average annual tuition and fees at public universities have nearly quadrupled since 1969, from $2440 to $9349. They've also more than tripled at private universities in that same time frame, from $10,636 to $32,769. Again, that's adjusted for inflation. Has educating people really become 3 or 4 times more costly in the last 55 years, or have they realized they can charge more, make more pointless cosmetic improvements to campuses to entice students, and line the pockets their boards of trustees and presidents, some of whom make multi-million dollar salaries?

Your second paragraph is good advice though. I tell people the same thing.

[-] CaptainPedantic@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

In 1986, my mom paid $386 ($1,106 in 2024) in tuition for a quarter at the University of Washington. In 2015, I paid around $3,700 ($4902 in 2024) for a quarter at UW.

In 1986, UW got $440 million dollars from the state. That's $1.2 billion in 2024. In 2015, UW got $644 million from the state. That's $0.8 billion today.

It's hard to find enrollment data for some reason, but there were less than 30,000 students at UW in the late 80s. In 2015, that figure was closer to 55,000.

Using inflation adjusted figures, the state was contributing $41,000 per student in 1986 compared to $14,500 in 2015. Adding in yearly tuition, the total cost was $44,700 in 1986. In 2015, that's $29,300 per student.

Importantly, this analysis leaves out private contributions to the university's budget which makes up a large portion of its funds. However, those funds are usually restricted in how they can be spent.

Most of the buildings on UW's campus were built in the 50s or 60s. There were some that were from the 20s and 30s or older. Forget cosmetics, most of those need renovations just to remain usable. There were thousands of good, usable computers in the libraries that were always in use. Keeping that fleet running is an expense that just wasn't around 30+ years ago. Labs equipment has gotten better and more expensive. I used a $100,000 high speed camera when I was in school. My mom sure didn't have access to that.

Based on my quick, back of the envelope math, education has not gotten 3 to 4 times more expensive, but the state has been contributing less and less money to fund it.

[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

And yet UW president is pulling in over 1.1 million a year. And I doubt she's the only overpaid one in the university administration.

[-] CaptainPedantic@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

According to the state salary database, there are about 3 dozen UW employees who make more than $500,000 a year in 2022 (the most recent year published). A few are administrative staff, many are coaches for sports (which is very dumb), and a few are professors.

Their total salaries sum to $32 million, which is a lot. But when you divide that across the total number of students, it comes out to about $580 per student per year. So even if you stopped paying these people, tuition would only go down about 5%.

That's assuming that these staff members don't bring any value, which is not a good assumption. Many of these highly paid people would be highly compensated in this private sector--for example the manager of UW's investments makes $1 million per year--so rightly or wrongly, the university must pay very high to retain them.

As I said before, the university has received $400 million less from the state (adjusted for inflation) today than it did in the 1980s. The expense of highly paid staff is a drop in the bucket compared to the drop in state funding.

[-] uberdroog@lemmy.world 30 points 6 months ago

I don't eat corn either. Or drive a hybrid. Or have a child with food insecurity. I have never been impacted by a flood or hurricane. I won't qualify for medicaid and my Social Security will be less than I have contributed. We could do this dumb line of thinking all day.

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

They want people like myself to get angry at this because "I made the decision to not go into debt because of the debt part and these people without care for the outcome just jumped into taking on debt and now want us responsible people to cover their tab."

It's supposed to play on some sense of "fairness" and "I played by the rules, why do you get to just make new rules for yourself to succeed while I'm stuck in a worse life because I stuck to the original rules?" It works with a lot of people. Even I'm kinda bitter about it, but that doesn't mean I don't want people to get educated without going into debt. I just wish I was born 10 years later than I was so I could benefit too!! :P

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

I’m out here working and no one paid for my college but me (well, and …). Dammit, why are we still making people do this? Where can I sign up to help get next generations off to a good start without crippling debt?

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

That’s the problem though. They want none of their pennies to go to anyone else for anything. Loosely they might pay for someone else’s whatever if it’s their choice, or maybe if there’s groveling involved. They use mental excuses like “someone that’s lazy, doesn’t meet my made-up standards, doesn’t look, speak, or think like me”… or any other metric by which they subjectively view others to judge whether or not those others get their money. Yet somehow they expect roads, water, schools and all the other services that keep their town and state to miraculously keep functioning and not look like a decrepit village on a dirt road in a destitute nation.

[-] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 64 points 6 months ago

Agreed! Paying for YOUR degrees is DANGEROUS! Paying for Billionaire's Yachts via Warfare is AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM!

[-] chase_what_matters@lemmy.world 53 points 6 months ago

This despicable fuck is aging, and the future can’t come fast enough.

[-] ChillPenguin@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

Just waiting for the day. We're gonna have a lot of parties to throw in the next 5-10 years.

[-] owenfromcanada@lemmy.world 50 points 6 months ago

😠🫸 Millions to help poor students

😃👉 Billions in bailouts to the rich

[-] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 33 points 6 months ago

They make more money on average so pay more taxes.

How is that a bad thing?

[-] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 45 points 6 months ago

Because if we help them pay off those predatory loans, they're less desperate and less likely to accept a bullshit job to avoid starvation and homelessness. Can't have people having options, like those afforded to educated folks.

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 10 points 6 months ago

They don't want people moving out of red states, like South Carolina. Too bad for him.

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago

Don't accept his premise. It's completely incorrect. Statistics show that the vast majority of people getting student loan relief are not ultra wealthy, or even mildly wealthy, or Wealthy by any definition. Wealthy people don't need student loans. It's overwhelmingly people of lower middle class background or currently working in lower middle class jobs will receive student loan debt relief. People either just above just at or just below the poverty line.

[-] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago

If you go to post secondary education you’re going to on average make more money then if you don’t.

If you make more money you’ll pay more taxes the rest of your life so it’s a cheap investment is my point.

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Yes that's nice, but I'm saying don't concede his premise. You seem to be doing that. You can have your point while the same time acknowledging he's lying.

[-] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

You’re not understanding my point.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Yeah. Cuz the next step is creating as public school system that includes 2 years of technical school....

and that'd be socialist.

and socialism is dangerous to his constituents.

(if you're not buying him off, you're not his constituent.)

[-] notfromhere@lemmy.ml 19 points 6 months ago

This is dangerous to our democracy.

[-] DogPeePoo@lemm.ee 18 points 6 months ago

“THE ONLY THING THAT HELPS THE ECONOMY IS TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!”, yelled Graham.

[-] mp3@lemmy.ca 16 points 6 months ago

It's beyond dangerous to the GOP to have a successful and educated society that isn't crumbling under debts.

[-] lennybird@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Bail out banks: Good.

Bail out poor/middle-class: Bad!

[-] MehBlah@lemmy.world 14 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The more people get educated the more people will realize he is a complete twat.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago

Progressives: "Reducing our $1.75T student debt balance by a $10B is simply too little and arriving too late to dig the current generation out of this debt crisis."

Conservatives: "Biden's debt forgiveness plan murders innocent little white babies."

big fucking sigh

[-] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago

The pilot fish is still circling Trump.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 12 points 6 months ago

I agree with Lindsey Graham, all higher education should be paid for, including living expenses while people go to trade school.

It's only fair. America will pay for you to become a welder, an artist, or a welder who makes art with welding.

[-] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

Yes exactly!! We should stop giving billionaires massive tax breaks on their yachts and private jets give them to ordinary citizens for higher education.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago

As someone who went to a private university and always believed it a superior choice, fuck that noise. A few states have started offering free instate tuition again, at public universities.

Let’s change course here, let’s steer this baby over to the public side…..

How about

  • all public funding goes to free tuition at public universities/vo-tech for everyone that wants it
  • if you insist on going to private, you can do private funding. No loans for you. No grants for you
[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The bigger private unis already have endowments big enough to coast on indefinitely. Cornell has $9B for a student body of 25k. Harvard has a $51B trust fund for a student body of 30k. MIT has $24B across 12k students.. When schools are this obscenely rich, tuition is a drop in the bucket.

Plus they get tons of donations from stupid alumni.

[-] Xanis@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

Twisting words so hard I think the man is trying to verbally make a twizzler appear in thin air.

Long as it isn't a bowl of penunias, I suppose. Though I'm not against a whale appearing above his head.

POINT IS, the GOP is trying to say that Biden using his authority as President, and loopholes almost certainly carved by past Republicans, to bypass evil restrictions (See: Senate v. Student Loan Debt), to help others is actually the same as Trump. He's flipping the narrative and normalizing Executive power.

What a little shit.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 4 points 6 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Sen. Lindsay Graham went on a fear-mongering rant about President Joe Biden’s actions to forgive student debt, calling the relief “beyond lawless and beyond dangerous.”

If you’re out there working and didn’t go to college, Joe Biden’s forgiving student loans, and you’re paying for them,” the Republican senator said on Fox News Sunday.

Doug Burgum has also had harsh words for Biden and defended his repeated comments calling the current president’s administration “a dictatorship.”

CNN anchor Kaitlan Collins asked the Republican governor on Sunday’s State of the Union, “I understand you don’t like President Biden’s policies on immigration or student loans.

“Part of where this word [dictatorship] has come from has been a nonstop media attack on President Trump saying that, oh, that he might use executive orders when he takes office,” Burgum said.

Collins replied by pointing out that Biden has signed far fewer executive orders than Trump did in the same amount of time when he was in office.


The original article contains 477 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 66%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[-] foggy@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

I mean this isn't it. But this country is toast.

This is where we're at?

this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2024
199 points (94.6% liked)

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