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submitted 2 months ago by Emperor@feddit.uk to c/movies@lemm.ee

Disney made an estimated $296.4 million loss at the box office on just two of its Marvel superhero movies in 2023 according to analysis of recently-released financial statements.

They reveal that the cost of making The Marvels and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania came to a staggering $762.4 million (£609.3 million) before Disney banked $124.9 million (£99.4 million) in government incentives bringing its net spending on the movies down to $637.5 million. They both bombed at the box office.

According to industry analyst Box Office Mojo, the movies grossed a combined $682.2 million with theaters typically retaining 50% of the takings and the remainder going to the studio. This reflects the findings of film industry consultant Stephen Follows who interviewed 1,235 film professionals in 2014 and concluded that, according to studios, theaters keep 49% of the takings on average. It would give Disney just $341.1 million from The Marvels and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. No expense was spared on them.

...

Disney does not publicly discuss how much it spends on specific productions and did not respond to a request for comment. Budgets are usually a closely-guarded secret. This is because studios combine the costs of individual pictures in their overall expenses and their filings don't itemize how much was spent on each one. Films made in the UK are exceptions and both The Marvels and Quantumania fall into this category.

Studios shoot in the UK to benefit from its Audio-Visual Expenditure Credit (AVEC) which gives them a cash reimbursement of up to 25.5% of the money they spend in the country.

To qualify for the reimbursement, at least 10% of the production costs need to relate to activities in the UK. In order to demonstrate this to the UK government, studios tend to set up a separate production company in the country for each movie they make there.

The companies have to file financial statements which shine a spotlight on their budgets. They reveal everything from the headcount and salaries to the level of reimbursement and the total costs. Studios directly receive the revenue from theater tickets, streaming and Blu-ray sales and carry the costs of marketing as the function of the UK companies is purely making the movies.

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[-] wrig9547@lemm.ee 133 points 2 months ago

I’m sorry, did I just read that DISNEY received $125 Million in government incentives to make a comic book movie?

[-] protist@mander.xyz 62 points 2 months ago

Studios shoot in the UK to benefit from its Audio-Visual Expenditure Credit (AVEC) which gives them a cash reimbursement of up to 25.5% of the money they spend in the country.

It's not like they were handed a blank check, they spent hundreds of millions more paying people and buying stuff in the UK to get that rebate

[-] PineRune@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

"As the CEO, if I pay myself $100 million for making this movie, I will get $25 million of that back from government reimbursement."

No big budget movie will ever make a profit because they make sure the big wigs get paid the amount the profit would have been. It is intentional.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 28 points 2 months ago

It goes into more detail in the article about how they qualify for that rebate, and no, that's not how it works.

[-] PineRune@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Easy. I'm the new CEO of the company we set up there. Employee salary is an expenditure, and being a company in that country, it qualifies for that rebate unless there's more details I'm missing. I was also grossly over-simplifying in my original comment, I'm sure it's more complicated than that. I also just attribute Hollywood Accounting (see other commenter's post) to anything listed as a box office loss.

[-] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 months ago

In the UK things like that get checked when it comes to grants, they will usually only be valid purchases if spent with approved companies.

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[-] Ptsf@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

Wait till you find out the literal billions Georgia (USA) gives away to filmmakers via a tax credit that's been proven to not be more effective than social programs by a significant margin at generating community wealth...

(https://www.audits.ga.gov/ReportSearch/download/28730)

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

It's because trickle down-style policies give more wealth and social power to those at the top while allowing the argument that the economic activity that results from that wealth benefits everyone down the pyramid (which also creates a dependency on more instances of these transfers as businesses grow to accommodate the extra demand).

Social programs do that without giving more wealth or social power to people at the top.

The effectiveness that they care about isn't the economic benefit or allowing people to become more independent, it's about funneling money to the rich in the hopes that they will funnel some of it back in a way that won't look so much like corruption.

[-] Ptsf@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Indeed. You'd be shocked the amount of people I've spoken with that believe otherwise. They see the positive side of the numbers and don't think about the long term implications for even a moment it seems.

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[-] PineRune@lemmy.world 55 points 2 months ago

"I lost $100 million dollars making this movie. Coincidentally, I also paid myself $100 million to make this movie."

[-] adarza@lemmy.ca 47 points 2 months ago

this only accounts for box office take. when you add in streaming, tv and other broadcast rights, home video, merchandising. they won't be 'losing money' on these two 'bombs'.

[-] Windex007@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

Yeah when the ant man Halloween costume numbers come in at the end of the month I'm sure they'll be in the black.

[-] kameecoding@lemmy.world 29 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Even though this includes the Ant Man film, they put Brie Larson on the thumbnail, they know what they are doing.

[-] ObsidianZed@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

I took it as the image looks vaguely like she's looking at a piece of mail or a paycheck with a concerned expression on her face, befitting of the general content of the article.

[-] Artyom@lemm.ee 25 points 2 months ago

This analysis isn't acknowledging the important fact that The Marvel's was dogwater in its best moments and pure cringe at all other times.

[-] WanderingVentra@lemm.ee 20 points 2 months ago

I liked the Marvels =(

Meanwhile, I've heard such bad things about Quantumania that I haven't watched it yet lol.

[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 9 points 2 months ago

I liked Quantumania. Sometimes you just want something fun and it delivered.

[-] PhAzE@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I also liked Quantumania. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't "Thor 4" level of bad either.

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[-] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I’m a 40 year old dude and thought it was fun. Not my favourite, but it clearly wasn’t made for me. I feel like it’s the kind of thing that will really connect with young girls and later on it will be looked back on fondly.

Dads, watch it with your daughters. You won’t regret it.

Quantumania was fun too. Could’ve been better, but don’t believe all the hate.

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[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 5 points 2 months ago

I enjoyed the Marvels but I rate the Captain Marvel highly.

I thought Quantumania was pretty pointless, doubly now Kang has been dropped.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

I didn't mind the Marvels. I thought it had problems, and parts were cringy if you're not into it. But the biggest flaw was the writing. It's like they had these ideas for set pieces, and then tried to bring it all together as an afterthought. It wasn't as bad as certain people wanted it to be.

Quantumania was unfinished. It was like they ran out of money and time and just submitted the minimally viable movie. Paul Rudd is always charming, and the actress playing Cassie/Stature is going to be a net plus to the Young Avengers. I think Michelle Pfeiffer was poorly utilized, and of course Kang became a PR problem. But the writing had some high points. The story was engaging, the stakes were real, and the characters all had arcs. The CG was shit, and the Giant Goof schtick is overplayed. Letting go of the physics is a prerequisite for any Superhero movie.

They did poorly because Disney was rushing. They wanted to generate energy and enthusiasm by deliberately releasing each new movie before the last one was available on streaming. But instead of creating fomo, they fostered indifference because the product wasn't good enough. Nothing post-endgame felt like must-watch content. The tie-ins were half-assed, because the studio clearly did not have faith that they would ever get to wrap up each dangling plot thread.

The Marvels was better than Eternals. Quantumania was better than Wakanda Forever. None of them are great movies, but none are as bad as anti-woke or anti-superhero critics suggest.

[-] LordCrom@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Werewolf by night was lit. I loved that one. Man thing character aside, it was fun and suspenseful.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I do not understand Paul Rudd's appeal at all. He just seems like a normal dork that isn't ugly. Nothing against him, I just don't get the gushing everyone else seems to do.

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[-] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Sounds like most of the marvel movies

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[-] Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca 23 points 2 months ago

Wow! That's like a sixth of two billion!

[-] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

No shit. What a bullshit manipulation of numbers by people thrusting their hate boners. “Almost $300m” would have sufficed.

God they had to dig so deep to get these numbers. Looking up tax records? Like Jesus Christ let it go.

[-] credo@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

A) Ant man is such a stupid movie. “He keeps his same inertia even though he’s tiny”

B) Never trust Hollywood accounting

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 29 points 2 months ago

The physics never make sense. Iron Man should be a pink smoothie in a can. Hulk generates mass from nothing and sheds it back to nothing when he changes. Spiderman should be pulling drywall off the studs. Vibranium makes zero sense, either as a shield or as a suit or really any other time. 90% of the fighting Hawkeye and Black Widow do is absurd and would leave their bones shattered.

Thor is all magic, so that gets a pass, but you can't throw a hammer and the get dragged behind it, and then change directions midair. Thor is flying because magic, let's just leave it at that.

And it's not just the MCU. Superman can't catch a plane by the nose. Batman can't launch a grapple hook while he's falling and prevent his death.

Aragorn can't toss Gimli that far. Luke's X-Wing doesn't bank through air in space. The USS Enterprise wouldn't always be oriented to be upright with everything. James Bond can't just recover from all those concussions and venereal diseases without brain damage. Indy can't ride out a nuclear explosion in a fridge.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's not that the physics doesn't match reality, it's that the physics doesn't match THEIR OWN rules.

It'd be like if the Hulk was crushing cars with his steps in one scene, but then calmly sitting in a flimsy plastic lawn chair in the next. It's discongruent within their OWN rules. It doesn't match THEIR OWN reality.

It'd be like if Superman is suddenly unable to shrug off bullets. It's dumb.

Stories do not have to be realistic, but they MUST be congruent in order to be taken seriously. It's much, MUCH harder to suspend disbelief if there are no rules and the good guy magically wins.

If you say, "but that's Disney Marvel, though", then perhaps that has something to do with the waning popularity!?

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Sure, but also Pym is dumbing down his explanations for Scott, because he thinks Scott is a moron. The exact functioning of Pym particles isn't at all clear.

It would be like if Superman could tear his S emblem off his chest and throw it at bad guys like a giant cellophane net. Or if Superman could fly fast enough to spin the Earth backwards and reverse time.

Or like if Hulk could be stopped by some crazy loud directional speakers.

Super powers and weaknesses are, and always have been, entirely plot dependent. Vision can phase because he can phase. The explanation that Vision can control his own density makes zero sense. That could make him float, but it wouldn't make him fly sideways, and it certainly wouldn't allow him to pass through solid matter. Air is not very dense, but it doesn't pass through solid stone. The physics of Starlord and Gamora in space make no sense. Groot makes no sense. Yondu's arrow makes no sense.

Ant-Man can shrink and punch a dude because he can shrink and punch a dude. The only problem is they tried to explain it like it's science.

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[-] Gamoc@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

You're right, it's bad because the movie about a man that can shrink to the size of an ant is unrealistic, rather than because it was very badly written.

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[-] Soup@lemmy.cafe 18 points 2 months ago

Who knew over saturating tired IP would result in a loss of profit?

[-] dumbass@leminal.space 16 points 2 months ago

Awww no, poor thing... Does Disney need a hug?

[-] lohky@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

You know, this is kind of a feel good story to me. That money didn't just vanish into the ether. Disney lost that money to the people working on the movies. Not counting the massively overpaid actors and shit, but that "loss" was just regular people taking money from Disney and I like that quite a bit.

[-] late_night@sopuli.xyz 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

A third of a billion dollars... so far

[-] MehBlah@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Less than 333 mil isn't even close to a billion. I really get tired of click bate headlines.

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[-] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Keep it up!

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 points 2 months ago

They've apparently got like $6 billion in cash reserves so they can afford the odd stinker.

Those losses won't be real losses, because they'll just pay everyone less on the next movie. They'll be tax man losses. We haven't made any money, oh poor us...

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 3 points 2 months ago

Genuinely suspect that the people in charge of the money on these projects are stealing a good chunk of it.

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this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2024
193 points (94.5% liked)

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