this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2025
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Summary

Elon Musk called Social Security a “Ponzi scheme” on “The Joe Rogan Experience,” claiming it’s unsustainable due to long-term obligations exceeding tax revenue.

Critics, including Sen. Bernie Sanders, accused him of pushing privatization to benefit the wealthy. Musk also made false claims about Social Security mispayments.

His comments come amid looming Social Security cuts and restructuring. The Social Security Administration warns of potential fund shortages by 2035.

Democrats advocate for raising the tax cap on high earners to strengthen the program.

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[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 204 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

It's not a Ponzi Scheme when there's nobody standing to profit you dumb fucking idiot fuck. It's been getting funded for almost 100 years, and has only recently been under fire by assholes like you who accumulate wealth and remove it from being eligible for such a social safety net. Now you're worried we're coming for yours and Rogan's money to fund it, and we will.

Y'all need to stop listening to these morons pal around and podcasts. They mean to harm you and your families, and take away the already middling social programs that benefit you, not them.

[–] athairmor@lemmy.world 57 points 2 weeks ago

“If I’m not getting rich off it, someone else is.”

That’s how conservatives, from the rich to the poor, see the world.

[–] errer@lemmy.world 23 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It’s not just recently, conservatives have been threatening social security for decades.

[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago

Recently as in the last few decades. Reagan pretty much started all this bullshit, and it's been a tug of war since.

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[–] crusa187@lemmy.ml 110 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

The 2025 earnings tax cap for social security is $176k.

If those richest among us, like Elon who makes billions per year, had to pay social security tax on a larger percentage of their earnings, or on all of it like those of us making less than $176k annually, the system would easily be solvent in perpetuity. The only reason it’s potentially at risk is because rich assholes have lobbied successfully in order to not pay into it.

[–] lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

SSA publishes some cool solvency estimates for proposed policy changes. It looks like for payroll taxes, though eliminating the taxable maximum helps, some payroll tax rate increase is needed to sustain it long-term.

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[–] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 97 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Send that nazi back to South Africa

[–] verdantbanana@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

Better off being sent up to join Willzyx

[–] BlueLineBae@midwest.social 11 points 2 weeks ago

Put that thing back where it came from or so help meeeee

[–] DNS@discuss.online 7 points 2 weeks ago

Unfortunately US Republicans are Nazi's. Another sad thing is our society is too stupid to see the similarities as well as afraid calling a spade a spade.

US Republicans are Nazi's.

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 68 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Conservatives think the government should be run like a business. You're not buying or selling anything, the point is to serve the people you fucks.

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[–] dhork@lemmy.world 62 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I understand what he is saying. It kinda looks like one at first glance, because contributions from current workers go first to pay current retirees.

But what he misses is that we did it that way on purpose. The end goal was to make Americans more secure as a country. Americans could work at their jobs and be confident that they would be taken care of in their old age by the younger generation as a whole, Americans taking care of each other. I understand that the money I pay in now is going to support my parents and their generation, and I really dont mind. We'll see if these dimwits ruin it by the time I need it.

Everything with these MAGA idiots is zero-sum. If they are paying money to anyone, they need to be the ones getting the benefits from it, otherwise it is a "scam". The problem with zero-sum is that there always have to be winners and losers. And if the people in power are always the winners, what does that make us?

[–] RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

He is in charge of this debacle. He needs to give it more than a first glance

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[–] wildncrazyguy138@fedia.io 43 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

I mean, in a way he’s not wrong. The money gets funneled from all of us all the way to the top.

But the thing is, the money does get distributed - all of it. The Ponzi at the top is us again, stealing from it to pay for infrastructure or defense spending.

And that is fine because that type of scheme with a large moat is called insurance. And so long as we can continue to pay out distributions, it is solvent.

But it isn’t solvent, because premiums haven’t kept up with payouts and the payouts for the baby boomers are massive. And if we don’t take some kind of action (e.g. increased premiums, disqualification for the rich, increase the benefit age) then payouts will eventually need to decrease.

[–] riskable@programming.dev 94 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Actually, the remedy Social Security needs is to remove the income cap. Elon Musk pays just as much into social security as I do: ~$10,900

It's because there's a cap: $176,100. Once you earn that much in income you don't have to pay into social security anymore! It's ridiculous!

Basically, the richer you are, the less you're paying into social security as a percentage of your income. It's the opposite of progressive (just like HSAs).

Remove the cap and people like Musk will be paying millions into Social Security every year. It'll make it solvent again in no time at all.

[–] Bigfish@lemmynsfw.com 9 points 2 weeks ago

That's exactly why the Republicans have been trying to dismantle it. The only solution that's not going to get you voted out of office is the one that gets your reelection funding cut off.

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[–] Furbag@lemmy.world 43 points 2 weeks ago

Oh, so SS is a ponzi scheme now? Well then, I hope you do something about that, Musk. And then I'd like my tens of thousands of dollars that were taken from my paycheck back, please. After all, if I paid into the system and I haven't used any benefits yet since I'm not at retirement age, you should be able to pay me back after you seek recompense from all the "mispayments" going on, right?

This is the billionaire class trying to do a rug pull. Don't believe their accusations of fraud and abuse, they're doing anything they can except raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for it. It's your money. You paid faithfully into the system. If they mismanaged the funds by borrowing against it to fuel military quagmires all around the world, that's a "them" problem. Hold the government accountable and do not let them cancel your retirement entitlements.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 39 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Elon Musk called Social Security a “Ponzi scheme” on “The Joe Rogan Experience,” claiming it’s unsustainable due to long-term obligations exceeding tax revenue.

Being a Ponzi scheme requires fraud. In a Ponzi scheme, the fraudster fraudulently claims that an investor is making a larger return than he is, then -- for a while -- pays him back from future investments from other investors. It is intrinsically unsustainable.

Social Security isn't fraudulent. It states explicitly that people contributing to Social Security are providing the funds to people who are withdrawing from it. It may not be sustainable to maintain a fixed level of benefits at a fixed level of taxation if the fertility rate is declining, but the lack of sustainability isn't what makes a Ponzi scheme a Ponzi scheme. It's the presence of fraud, which does not exist for Social Security.

I remember that the Social Security Administration website used to have a page up explicitly describing why it wasn't a Ponzi scheme.

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 31 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Alternative headline: expert on ponzi schemes bemoans what he sees as competition

[–] Dogiedog64@lemmy.world 30 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

You know what, if they destroy Social Security just because Musk said so, I have no doubt there will be blood. Too many people from too many demographics in too many places rely on it just to SURVIVE, let alone abuse it in any meaningful way.

This would honestly be one of, if not the fastest ways to spark a civil war, outside of rolling troops into major cities and opening fire. Why? Because you'd suddenly have millions of people unable to feed themselves, in a country where there are significantly more guns than people, and they'd all have ample cause to march on DC.

THAT SAID, I doubt Musk and Trump have thought of that, because they're 2 drug-addled lunatics who do not and never have cared about long-term ramifications. I'm sure other Republicans are shitting themselves in fear right now, as the Dipshit Duo get ready to kill the Political Golden Goose, but none of them can speak up for fear of losing power.

What a fucking mess.

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[–] thann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 weeks ago

"Full self-driving"

[–] d33pblu3g3n3@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The favorite dumb argument from the guys who constantly defraud governments via tax dodging and subsidies.

Despicable thief and con man.

[–] meowmeowbeanz@sopuli.xyz 26 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If Musk dislikes "Ponzi schemes," maybe start by rejecting government subsidies for his ventures.

🐱🐱

[–] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

No no no, not like that. - Moscow musk

[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 25 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Lol Bro doesn't know what a Ponzi Scheme is

[–] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 41 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

He doesn't know what almost anything really is, despite all the bullshit he spouts. He's the human embodiment of the Dunning Kruger effect.

The entire stock market is basically a ponzi scheme.

Push pensions, 401k, 529, HSA money into one spot and then rug the whole market every few years.

[–] tree_frog@lemm.ee 24 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Okay crypto-fascist whatever you say

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

His bullshit he's spouting isn't even true. US life expectancy hasn't even increased at all over the past 20 years, and has only gone up by like 7 years over the past 50 and they've increased retirement age since then.

[–] caffinatedone@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Yep. It’d be inconvenient for them to note that the funding issues are primarily driven by increasing concentration of income which falls above the Social Security withholding cap. If they’d just remove that cap, then no issue.

[–] skozzii@lemmy.ca 23 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Does he feel like way about all pension programs or just the ones he is trying to plunder?

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[–] sturmblast@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's one of the most popular social programs in American history. It's also OUR FUCKING MONEY ELON.

[–] WraithGear@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

Popular… except i have grown up being told that ss was something i paid into but would not be available for me.

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

Social security is never going to "run out" it's continuously funded, that's how it works. America lacks curiosity and an attention span beyond a couple seconds. Conservatives loudly accuse (while projecting), demand detailed explanation and then immediately become disinterested in the explanation they demanded - mostly because they can't comprehend the basic concepts and their eyes glaze over. For the most part they are unserious, homicidal and suicidal and just looking for an excuse to have an outburst.

Don't let them leech your energy trying to explain or debate. They don't know or care what you are talking about.

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[–] BestBouclettes@jlai.lu 19 points 2 weeks ago

Says the guy who made most of his fortune on taxpayer money and hype.

[–] gamer@lemm.ee 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Joe Rogan is watched mostly by young people, many of which are also too young to realize that cutting social security means they're going to spend a good chunk of their adult life taking care of their parents until they die. That means paying for their housing or living facility, or having them live with you.

Reaching these young people to get this across to them is the tricky part.

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[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 11 points 2 weeks ago

claiming it’s unsustainable due to long-term obligations exceeding tax revenue.

Dude literally took over the system that allows the government to create money out of thin air, tellin us the government’s gonna run out of money.

Also, your fake department is named after the first meme coin. Which you tried to pump-and-dump on live TV. Ponzi-scheming motherfucker.

[–] Waldowal@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Should have listened to Al Gore: Lockbox

[–] zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

What a different world we would be in if Florida didn't fuck up in 2000

[–] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

What a different world we would be in if ~~Florida didn't fuck up in 2000~~ jeb bush and the Supreme Court didn't steal the election in 2000

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[–] wanderwisley@lemm.ee 8 points 2 weeks ago

Elon is a anamorphic Ponzi scheme.

[–] mbrailer@mstdn.social 8 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

@MicroWave Ponzi schemes by their nature are short-lived; According to Wikipedia, Charles Ponzi's original scheme ran just over a year before collapsing. All pyramid schemes require a pool of investors that is constantly expanding, which is not the situation with Social Security.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles/_Ponzi

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

We should make 10 nukes and retire all armed forces. Then we just tell the world... We got 10 solutions to your problem. And just focus on getting more of those nukes up in space. That should make enough money to pay for social security, back rubs and happy endings. Probably toss in some NPR and educational funding.

[–] Salvia@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

What an idiot. Tons of rich people know that social security is a riot tax (it's not but that's how they see it).

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Lol moron doesn't know what a Ponzi Scheme is.

Hang on... I... I have an idea. 😈

[–] kokolores@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The more news I read the more I think of judge dredd as the future for the USA.

Corporate Takeover of Government

Elon Musk and DOGE and the budget cuts, like a megacorp executive running essential public services for profit.

Trump & Musk pushing privatization, bust like how corporations in Judge Dredd control everything from housing to law enforcement.

Weakening Social Safety Nets

Cutting Social Security, making healthcare deniable based on religious beliefs (Arkansas bill), reducing government services looks like pushing society toward a survival-of-the-fittest model to me.

The rich live in luxury, while everyone else is left to fend for themselves like the division in Judge Dredd’s Mega-City One.

Authoritarianism & the Rule of the Few

Trump’s policies, Vance’s ideology, Musk’s influence, the US is shifting toward rule by billionaires and strongmen, bypassing democratic institutions.

The Rise of Private Justice & Armed Control

Musk’s obsession with tech-based policing & surveillance (like Neuralink, AI, and robot enforcement) eerily mirrors corporate-controlled law enforcement in dystopian fiction.

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