The neolibs are too far right. The tankies are doing whatever that is. Where's the space for the people who want fully-automated-luxury-gay-space-communism, but realize that it's gonna take a while and there are lots of steps between now and then? Here. This is that space.
Here, people should endeavor to discuss and devise practical, actionable leftist action. Vote lesser evil while you build grassroots coalitions. Unionize your workplace. Participate in SRAs. Build cohesion your local community. Educate the proletariat.
This is a place for practical people to develop practical plans to implement stable, incremental improvement.
If you're dead-set on drumming up all 18,453 True Leftists® into spontaneous Revolution, go somewhere else. The grown ups are talking.
Rules:
-1. Don't be a dick. Racism, sexism, other assorted bigotries, you know the drill. At least try to default to mutually respectful discussion. We're all on the same side here, unless you aren't, in which case kindly leave.
-2. Don't be a tankie. Yes I'm sure you have an extensive knowledge of century-old theory. There's been a century of history since then. Things didn't shake out as expected, maybe consider the possibility that a different angle of attack might be more effective in light of new data.
-3. Be practical. No one on the left benefits from counterproductive actions. This is a space informed by, not enslaved to, ideology. Promoting actions that are fundamentally untenable in the system in question, because they fulfill a sense of ideological purity, is a bad look. Don't do that.
"I agree with 95% of this man's platform, but I disagree with his more moderate takes during speeches. I will show the establishment they can't control me by choosing not to vote, ensuring that someone much worse makes it into office. That'll show them"
Nothing says a person has principles like letting someone else decide them for you.
No you see, permitting mass murder, human trafficking, oppression and violations of bodily autonomy are much better than supporting a single somewhat crappy thing.
(that was a joke, but not a ha-ha joke)
Does being "pure left" mean we can't condemn war crimes unless they're from the right? Calling out bullshit regardless of "teams" is part of what the left is all about.
The Terminally Online 'Leftist' Brigade disagrees, it would seem.
It isn't just the online ones and it makes me reluctant to even call myself left anymore. I rather describe myself as caring for others besides myself. Not catchy, I know.
do it after the fascists lose the election
Both Likud and Hamas are right though - dunno if you meant that. There are Tankies who whitewash Russian and Chinese atrocities because they perceive them as somehow still Left; Looking at you Roger Waters.
When are we going to stop pretending these alleged leftist agitators are actually on the left?
Anyone genuinely on the left would not waste their efforts infighting.
Anyone genuinely on the left would not waste their efforts infighting.
Infighting is the most ancient and hallowed of all leftist traditions.
Yeah you get a lot of opinionated, strong willed, free thinkers together and it kind of comes with the territory. We really should learn to pick our battles though- we should solve the big important things first and then we can squabble over the details.
> tankies aren't really leftist
Correct.
> no true leftists would infight
Ehhhhh.
Eeehh, infighting is kind of the logo of the far left.
Far right too, for that matter, horse shoe theory and all, I guess
TOL: "I'm gonna boycott voting for Dems to teach the Dems a lesson. Next time they'll put up a progressive!"
Reality: Trump wins and Biden is the 2020 candidate
TOL: "I'm gonna boycott voting for Dems to teach the Dems a lesson. Next time they'll put up a progressive!"
Reality: Biden wins but Dems can't get passed the filibuster because of a slim majority.
Trump never gets prosecuted and GOP lays groundwork to end democracy and instill fascism if Trump wins next time
TOL: "I'm gonna boycott voting for Dems to teach the Dems a lesson. Next time they'll put up a progressive!"
Reality: Trump wins 2024 and now US democracy is gone, probably permenantly.
Newsome is most likely to be next Dem nominee
Do we expect anything less from these troglodytes?
I expect nothing, but a man can hope he can nudge a few fence sitters
This is a really convenient way to view the Democratic party's constant failures. It's always someone else's fault besides the ones in charge. -_-
Oh no, those poor powerless dems that keep winning elections and look the other way when one of their memebers breaks ranks to be the ACTUAL deciding factor.
This narrative is propaganda, that the DNC is entitled to a magically giant number of votes from people who don't exist and that's why they're always useless.
It's definitely not because the Democratic party is complicit in the oligarchy or anything...
It’s definitely not because the Democratic party is complicit in the oligarchy or anything…
it's voting, not marriage. you vote for the least harm to those you care about (or fucking should, duh).
it's not an ideological purity exam, it's a multi-year term and then you vote again. vote the best option you have, otherwise we're gonna have trumps forever.
I cannot fathom how hard it is to get people to understand this very simple thing.
Yeah, let's keep republicans in power! That'll show us! /s
Nothing about purity, just contrarian; same people who supported Mamdani until he got popular or until average liberals began liking him. They're an insufferable bunch.
I'm convinced these people don't exist. They are right wing trolls meant to divide people
We have not one but several entire instances filled with people like this. Hell, the DSA unendorsed AOC, of all people, for being insufficiently pro-Palestine.
And the Republican lunatics are actually left-wing trolls, right? Or are they Russian bots?
Mostly troll farms...
🇷🇺 🇨🇳 🇯🇴 🇮🇱
probably bots
There's being outside the Overton Window, and then there's being outside the Overton's all together, next door at the Godwin's.
Funny how 90% of that interview, including calling Gaza a genocide is left out of the conversation. A cherry picked line in order to drive a wedge in support, this is not a real sentiment.
What chronically online group do you consider yourself a part of? Terminally online weirdos who call out other terminally online weirdos? It's the terminally online party that really bothers me about some people, it tends to drive people insane no matter what their political affiliation.
Terminally online weirdos who call out other terminally online weirdos?
I mean, I'd fit in that category. Mostly, and as I've repeated on here, I try to keep in mind that, though lunatics are not a negligible part of the electorate, they are still a very small part of it, and that the vast majority of leftists in the real world are willing to work and voice support for progressive causes.
I (unfortunately?) have extensive exposure to the outside world here in the US, for lack of other options, and am constantly reminded of that which the polls - both academic and electoral - continually bore out - that this is not a peoples who are as left as I - or most people on the Fediverse - would like.
It’s the terminally online party that really bothers me about some people, it tends to drive people insane no matter what their political affiliation.
Mostly it's that people who are terminally online tend to assign lower priority to other forms of social interaction and information gathering, combined with the ability of online communities to 'self-select' across vast geographic and cultural distances for ideological uniformity, and you have a recipe for one hell of an information bubble. Hell, how many times on here have I seen assertions that going left is the one and only solution needed to win elections going forward in the US, a country where the majority of the less-right-wing party and independents (who are generally more right-wing on average) want the country to either stay the same or go further right?
People get caught in these online maelstroms because it feels good to have people agree with you, and it feels good to have easy answers.
That's not even getting into questions of algorithms wrt what information is seen when searching.
FYI in case it wasn't just a typo, "apart" means almost the opposite of "a part"
Good catch there Webster, fixed!