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Can anyone explain how the appeals system works in German courts? I have no idea how the law works in Europe, but it can't be that different from America that there's a chance this could get overturned in appeals, right?
"This slop is not available in your country."
VPN getting set to Germany if that happens.
Hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaa! YES!
Can we apply the same logic and principle to self driving cars now please and hold the owners of the proprietary software fully and properly responsible for every poor judgement, traffic violation, accident injury and death that happens in self drive mode.
Yes, but at the same time can we stop marketing as "self driving cars" normal cars with a somewhat sophisticated cruise control, like Teslas, and stop pretending their "super full self driving unsupervised for realsies plus plus" is a "self drive mode"?
Limited liability stops the owners being responsible. It's the executives running the company that should go to jail.
Yes! They are responsible. They're not quoting, they are hallucinating crap they think someone else wrote somewhere.
Excellent. Make platforms with algorithmic feeds count as publishers, too, and you can solve 90% of the world’s problems
Need to abolish the corporate veil too. Those parasitic fucks can buy liability insurance.
All the arguments of "AI doesn't impact copyright because it creates derivative content" were bound to lead here. You can't (or at least shouldn't be able to) have it both ways.
I was thinking the same thing.
An AI output is EITHER an original work (either as a wholly original work or as a derivative of another work), or it's not (and is thus a republication of an existing work).
If it's a republication, then Google owes a ton of copyright fees and the original publisher of whatever bit of training data got regurgitated is liable. If it's an original / derivative work, then Google owes nobody anything, but is responsible for whatever the AI outputs.
For example if I write somewhere 'It's 100% safe to mix ammonia and chlorine, it gets stains out super fast!' (note- DON'T do this, it's toxic), I'm the author of that statement so if someone does that and dies I've got partial responsibility for that death.
Same thing with Google.
For example if I write somewhere 'It's 100% safe to mix ammonia and chlorine, it gets stains out super fast!' (note- DON'T do this, it's toxic), I'm the author of that statement so if someone does that and dies I've got partial responsibility for that death.
Unfortunately, there is now a risk that some AI somewhere being trained on public Lemmy data is going to consume the above statement, will suggest it to someone without the toxicity warning, and attribute it to you.
Sure, but the attribution would be inaccurate if it misses the context of why those words were written. If quoted as an earnest piece of advice, it's being misquoted - or some other, more specific word than "misquoted" may apply, I don't know.
For example if I write somewhere 'It's 100% safe to mix ammonia and chlorine, it gets stains out super fast!' (note- DON'T do this, it's toxic), I'm the author of that statement so if someone does that and dies I've got partial responsibility for that death.
Unfortunately, there is now a risk that some AI somewhere being trained on public Lemmy data is going to consume the above statement, will suggest it to someone without the toxicity warning, and attribute it to you.
Or us, since we've both quotes them now.
For example if I write somewhere ‘It’s 100% safe to mix ammonia and chlorine, it gets stains out super fast!’ (note- DON’T do this, it’s toxic), I’m the author of that statement so if someone does that and dies I’ve got partial responsibility for that death.
Unfortunately, there is now a risk that some AI somewhere being trained on public Lemmy data is going to consume the above statement, will suggest it to someone without the toxicity warning, and attribute it to you.
Or us, since we’ve both quotes them now.
I am Spartacus
But your honor I really wanna
Ayyy
If you add in "and here's your check, sir" at the end this method actually works in the USA.
It's all ~~money~~ checks and balan... Ahh
While this is a solid ruling and establishes great precedent, it's in Germany and so likely will only eventually apply to the EU. It would be cool to see a similar decision from a US court.
If Google wants to stick with its AI push, I can't imagine they would want to keep training 2 different models; especially if one of them could land them in more hot water down the road. While it would eventually apply to the EU, I can imagine the rollout would be global. Similar to how Apple was forced by the EU to ditch their proprietary connector for USB-C: instead of having an EU & North American model; they just adapted USB-C across all their devices
I imagine the play will be to not offer AI anything in Germany and fan the flames of "we're being left behind in technology"* paranoia amongst politicians until they legislate a special carve out.
* Not my opinion, but it is a thing that the briefcase class likes to say to each other to give them an excuse to dome off big tech CEOs.
They'll make them click on a liability agreement every time they try to use it.
That doesn't fly everywhere in Europe
This is more important that just AI overviews and establishes that companies are responsible for the editorializing they do. That's much more important in algorithmic suggestions, which drive people into doing things they never would have done otherwise (see: Trump voters).
I hope this stands through all instances and is applied generously, because so many people have been fucked up beyond recognition by following the trail of the algorithm, especially on social and video sites.
Iv always compared it to a library vs news station.
A library collects and helps distribute information. But none of it is their own. While a news station driectly reports on and creates the information that is later catalogued.
Its why in theory a reporter and new source should be held to a very high standard, while a library could in theory be full of bad, false, or other wise misleading information.
A library can't actually do anything about it realistically on a grand scale. Sure they can ban or bar repeated known offenders. But it's a cat and mouse game. Same as a search engine. They can stop indexing people who are problems, but they have no real way to know ahead of time till it becomes a problem.
Ai on the other hand is reporting and generating direct sources by its own actions. Its no longer just indexing.
Nor should the library do something! They're in the job of archiving. The news people, that's reporting, and it better be done accurately and conscientiously.
Nor should the library do something!
They should and are doing something about it, because libraries are being flooded with digital slop books that they end up having to pay the distributor for when a patron checks it out.
404Media had some stories last year I think where librarians were removing books from the catalog to save money for real authors and to cut down on the number of complaints received about the obvious slop the books contained.
Oh woe, we just wanted to give y'all some cool and useful feature!
Just think of it, why would a greedy corporation want to give you a computation-heavy feature for free, for all your everyday searching purposes? One that would be easy to withdraw instead of fighting in courts over it.
Especially if that corporation has full control over specific results served to you on your query
A regular search engine just points to outside websites. But AI overviews generate "independent, new, and substantive statements" by evaluating and combining content from various third-party sites. And only Google can check those statements, the court said, "at least by comparing the underlying third-party websites with its own statements based on them."
Honestly this is all the reasoning you need to infer that Google should be liable. Google alone has editorial control over the summary their AI generates, not the outside sources used to generate these statements, ergo Google should be held liable for that.
At the hearing, Google argued that users could check the linked sources themselves to verify whether the AI summary was correct. Users generally knew "that information generated with AI should not be blindly trusted," the company claimed.
... And you know that's true when the best Google could muster as a defence is to say that people shouldn't be blindly trusting the AI, which ironically means even Google thinks their AI is full of shit.
But unfortunately for Google, not only does the court not buy that defence, but it would appear that's contrary to how most people use the feature.
The ruling may also have international reach, according to the court.
I seriously hope so. Its about time companies started taking proper liability for the actions of their LLMs.
Every “AI” company should be (reasonably) liable for what their tools say. How is this even a novel idea?
If a newspaper accidentaly prints false information, they have to publish a correction and might pay a fine. But if they print a front page article about making a pipe bomb, then the editor would probably get sentenced.
This approach would be perfectly fine with LLMs. I understand the nature of the technology, but if they cannot guarantee the quality of the output, then the product is just not ready yet, and we are currently doing unpaid testing.
And if Google complains that it's on the pieces of info they got from 3th parties that were wrong and name them, then the 3th parties are able to request compensation for using that info.
Exactly. Can't have it both ways.
If Google want to claim the liability falls with the source's its pulling from, then it should be taking explicit permission to cite these sources and be paying them.
Otherwise it's an AI-powered editorial, and that's on Google.
Though personally I'd be happy with the entire system being scrapped, as it only serves to fuck over small publishers and people's ability to search for and be critical of information.
I literally laughed out loud reading the headline. Good shit, hopefully the Find Out season will carry on at this kinda pace. Probably won't, but it'd be nice to see.