Despite being in DSA, she is explicitly speaking against DSAs ratified anti-Zionist line
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She's an op
TL;DR (the comments); only idiots equate The Jews with Israel. Other than that death to (((Israel)))
Also, banned for “Zionism”.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fuck i dunno, the OP subject is apparently pointing this out and being slagged by the . . left? I think? . . for . . doing so?
She makes an excellent point that an opening is being made on the left that's backdooring some truly horrible influencers into the hearts and minds of otherwise good people.
However the suggestion that we need to reach out to Zionists to mend that hole is... well it's nuts really.
There's a growing convergence out there and we should embrace it. People traditionally on the left and right of a two-party system that's been largely aligned in its support for evil are finally realising that there's a lot of things we agree on that're not supported by either party. The only way we get those things is to break the hold the old guard has on us.
There is this political maneuver that is being embraced by DSA politicians that is preparing for the inevitable right wing anti Zionist candidate (like Tucker Carlson).
They seem to be attempting to move to the "we want to understand and listen to everyone". It's a fucking trap and will be absolutely destroyed by the "what's going on?" Propaganda from Tucker and Candice.
It's liberalism to the core and it will be seen as weak political pandering in a 2028 world in which Americans are blaming Israel entirely for the material decline.
The answer is NOT to talk to Zionist. The answer is to truly connect the Zionist interest to the interest of our ruling capitalist class. Fuck listening to Zionist. I'm sorry, you're not reaching out to the Jewish community.
The American Jewish community is disconnecting itself from Israel more and more each day. Especially among the younger generation. You LEAD this change. You don't follow it.
Disconnect Jewish identity from Zionism. Ignore the Jewish Zionist saying they "don't feel heard". Fuck them. They are Nazis the same as the Christian Zionist. Stop treating a Jewish Zionist as something special that you don't do for the larger population of Christian Zionist. Stop treating them with kiddie gloves.
Disconnect from Zionist. They are modern day Nazis.
Fight the right on the material concerns of the working class. Fight the Tuckers on their class interest. Don't make the 2028 election about the US being "controlled by Israel". We will lose that fight. We will lose because we are not addressing the full contradictions of capitalism. And the far right is significantly better at lying to avoid contradictions. We can't do that.
If we are going to win we HAVE to abandon this liberal idealism around "hearing people" that are our enemies. Fuck Zionist.
Yeah, its a really weird mashup of:
"too much of the mainstream rhetoric around liberation for Palestine and anti-zionism is coming from Nazis who just hate jews"(True!!)
and
"so actually what we need to do is listen to the Zionist community and hear their perspectives"
Which uhhhh, one of those things is a very good point to be making. The other is bewildering, get the fuck out of here with that. "We should listen to people who subscribe to this particular brand of ethno-nationalism, who will hear their voices? We only listen to the domestic ethno-nationalists, what about the ethnic nationalists who represent people abroad??"
We say fuck nazis and we can also say fuck zionists!
These are NOT mutually exclusive.
The "horrible influences" you mention are very real. Just recently I finally got round to blocking lemmy.ml. I always kept them around because I do value breaking into other echo chambers a bit to see things from their point of view.
They recently had a video posted, hosted on X, with claims that Israel conspired with Morocco to release migrants into Ceuta. The X post itself was filled with antisemitism. And I meant full-blown antisemitism, like Jewish caricatures, Nazi-rhetoric, not the "antizionism = antisemitism" kind.
I commented that I felt a bit uneasy taking a completely context-less video, blaming what's happening on a "Jewish conspiracy" (that's how it was being phrased) and simultaneously fully going along with far-right talking points (that Europe is being "invaded" (despite 95%+ migrants already having returned because Ceuta is not in Shengen) and that "Jewish elites" are conspiring to replace Christians with Muslims (great replacement theory but even stupider I guess)). Not to mention the total lack of class solidarity with the migrants.
Comment was upvotes +16 last I checked, but then got removed and I got banned for "zionism" (despite very clearly expressing my disdain for Israel and its genocide in that same comment). Antizionism must be kept separate from antisemitic influences, or Israel will use it to dismiss critics and justify their genocide. That .ml has apparently failed to do this is not something I wish to tolerate.
Link the post
https://lemmy.ml/post/50777620 Just look at the vile shit being posted on Twatter below that video.
Weirdly despite the mod removing my comment, my original comment isn't visible in the modlog; that only shows a ban. I assume I must be ignorant of how the modlog works, but previously I could view the contents of my comment there too. Did they change that or did they mess with the modlog?
X is full of call for violence and hate speech towards all people , nothing surprising here. My guess is that your comment sounded it like people can't say Israel control this , Israel conspired to have does that because it sound similar to real antisemite rhetoric towards jews but the different we have zero evidence of all the antisemitic bullshit about jews but he have ton of historical example of israel or it's lobbies doing terrible things in secret . We saw how all mainstream media keep defending israel, it can't be coincidence , we saw bbc removing 2 documentaries about the suffering in gaza after the lobby outrage , we have evidence of israel doing false flags operations. Regarding this particular event. Ynet has proven to push the israeli government framing and they wrote an article literally about this
Alongside the paid-for articles, Ynet also published promotional videos produced by the Ministry of Strategic Affairs, as well as three interviews with a ranking official at the ministry, Tzahi Gabrieli. Two of those paid-for interviews were conducted by Ynet’s senior political correspondent, Attila Somfalvi, who asked soft-ball questions that allowed him to present his talking points. From +972 magazine
Abraham Accords reach the Strait: how Israel can help Morocco reclaim its north
She literally used the rhetoric what make people gravitate to tucker.
Not losing support fast enough if you ask me. I can't figure out why anyone here supports them.
Evangelical Christianity. They teach that once all the Jews are in Israel and Israel is destroyed in WWIII all ‘good Christians’ will rapture to Heaven.
Way, way too many people in high places unironically believe this shit. It’s why Biden was so supportive of Israel.
No , biden support for israel is purely imperialistic
I used to think so, but no, turns out he’s one of the nuts that thinks he’ll be raptured.
Biden is catholic not evangelical, he do not believe in the rapture.
No space in dsa for zionists
Claiming to represent a progressive movement at home while pledging support for a fascist, apartheid ethnostate abroad.
Girl what?
Maybe don't genocide?
Scum, fuck her. She is making tucker even more popular with her bullshit
Fuck Israel, genocidal scum!
The state, yes, the people, no.
I mean the US in general is losing support for the Israeli state, but it has little to do with the Israeli people in general. The Israeli and US governments keep trying to say that people being against the actions of the Israeli government is antisemitic and using that as an excuse to crack down on protests. It is not antisemitic because the Israeli government is not the equivalent to the entirety of the Jewish peoples, they're just another authoritarian government.
It's the people supporting the state. These are the same people that setup picnics hillside to watch bombings in Gaza. The same people that overwhelming support the forced relocation of Palestinians.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support-expulsion-palestinians-gaza-poll
Did no one actually listen to the entire clip? Or, are y'all seriously just reacting to the quote in the headline?
I listened to it before I posted it, and she's trying to dance around the subject, trying to filter her words so to not offend the Zionist trash she's pandering to while sounding neutral.
I think you're hearing what you want to hear. It seemed pretty clear when I listened to her, that she's saying there's a missed opportunity right now to distinguish the left's perspective on this subject from the right's. At present the right is the only side talking about this, so they are the ones framing the narrative...and they are disingenuously taking the moral high ground, while those on the left are being framed as the anti-Semites.
What's worse, is that online, the left keeps calling everyone "Zionists", without adding any nuance to their position...which really does make them sound like the ones that have an ignorant position on this subject. Think about it...what do you call someone who lumps everyone into a certain category, whether it fits or not, and labels them with a hostile pejorative?
It kind of seems like you are proving her point about the left's messaging, and you're upset with her for calling you out on it.
Bullshit we call zionists zionists, we call non zionist none zionists. She is sympatizing with a genocidal state
She just keeps beating around the bush ain't nobody got time for that
She's concerned the criticism of Israel could give antisemites a platform, if the current political scene does not provide a good framing of Israel criticism. I agree it was a politicians answer though
She's concerned the criticism of Israel
The well deserved criticism of Israel that Israel continues to do nothing about it. Benjamin Netanyahu has been formally indicted and stands trial for corruption, yet he has manipulated his Government to stay in power for an undemocratically long amount of time. So let's call it what it is, he's a dictator. And he's having to use military might to remain in power. He's having to use consistent fear of invasion to remain in power.
Let's look pass the millions of innocent people he's killed, the children, the women, the elderly, he has slaughtered. Let us look solely at the objective which is, that man has clung to power long outside the rule of law established would have allowed him to remain in power. If it walks like a duck, if quacks like a duck, and it bites the shit out of everyone like duck, then it's likely a dictator using religious identity to hide behind.
People are concerned that antisemitism might get a platform. But look at the demonstration the Jewish people are giving for this "exemplar" of the Judaism state. The religion manifest as a Governing body of it's people. Like if your friend was taking you to "this great restaurant" and you get there and there's people stumbling out of it and shitting their pants and the whole place looks like a hurricane hit it. I mean you're going to be thinking twice about your friend's recommendation. And then when you look it all over and go "I don't think I want to eat here" they reply with "WELL YOU'RE JUST BEING ANTISEMITIC!" Well then, who fucking is pushing who away?
if the current political scene does not provide a good framing of Israel criticism
It's nobody's but Israel's to fix. The US ain't the fucking PR team for foreign nations. And it's stupid to think it ought to be. All it has done so far for the United States to step up for Israel is to make the US look like an idiot. "Oh no, Israel would never bomb a school..." And then we're watching videos of them doing exactly that. And then that just makes the US look like a fucking idiot.
If Israel is concerned about their bad image, I wonder what they could possibly do about it? I don't know, maybe address the despot in power at the moment? That's the thing. The US is seeing their own dictator trying to rise up and how awesome that's going for them. So then they look at Israel and how freely their despot runs around, we know the game. He's running around freely because the majority of the population is now blown out Likud, the Israeli MAGA elites basically.
Netanyahu is getting his hall pass on the Jewish equals rich fuckheads that keep saying "oh no we are here to save the little guy!" All the while they pop their data centers, take our electricity, take our water, fuck our trade, fuck our farmers with that trade, fuck our grocery prices, fuck our gasoline prices, tear down our education, tear down our hospitals, and so on. MAGA is Likud, that's who they are patterned after. And we see what MAGA is doing for all of us and how hard we have to push back, to the point they fucking shoot people in the back of head in the middle of the Streets here in the United States. So when Netanyahu walks so freely around, we here in the US know, 90% of the Israeli population that permits that and there's little to no push back in that nation. Yeah, they are holding up someone running a nation who should be in prison right now.
You don't even need to consider the massive genocide that Israel has done so far. That country has abandoned every single principal the United States ought to stand for. A country ruled by law, where all are judged the same, where elections matter, and the people's voices are heard. Israel does this shit to themselves. If they are that concerned, maybe start with some political reforms (that they entirely control) so that they look less like a dictatorship and more like this so called Democracy they keep saying they are.
It's not up to anyone else but Israel to deal with their image. If they want to be the Jewish ethnostate, if they want to be what people think of when someone thinks Jews, then it's on THEM to deal with the fallout from the fact that their government is 100,000% completely fucked at the moment. And is being ran by a criminal who is being kept in power by rich elites and fear. And you know, it's something that the United States is getting to see firsthand, so our appetite for other nations doing it gets reduced down a bit. See MAGA hurts the Israelis the most. Because there's only so much Trillionaires running the nation that common people from all walks of life are willing to put up with, no matter their political affiliation. See if it was all just in Israel with the Likud, we'd have the room for it on our plate. But since MAGA has come in and started showing everyone how amazing greedy fucksticks run things, we've got a bit less room now.
Another dumb feddit.org user. Being preoccupied that a genocidal state is losing support is what would mske more peoole antisemetic. The fsct thst you equate israel to jews make you the antisemite here
You are mean and i dont appreciate bullies.
Be nice or be gone.
You seem to appreciate bullies when they are committing genocide...
Fuck off. I will be rude to zionist supporters apologist
Enlighten us. What kind of context would make her ststement not disgusting
What exactly makes what she said disgusting to you? She's simply saying that the real anti-Semites are the ones framing the narrative around Israel right now, and making the left look bad in the process. If we don't step up our game, and start distinguishing ourselves from that narrative, we are going to lose this debate.
She is preoccupied that a state acting like nazis are losing support. Fuck off with your bullshit. This opportunistic scum is giving a bad image to the left
No. She's preoccupied with the idea that we (the left) are failing to properly capitalize on the fact that a state acting like Nazis are losing support. This should be the perfect time for us to fill that void with something better...but instead, folks like Tucker Carlson and Laura Loomer are the ones stepping up to do that.
She literally said i am preoccupied that israel is losing global support with that bullshit she give more letigimacy to tucker who is a known whit supremacist. Stop making dumb excuses and fuck off
Oh. Ok. So, you didn't actually listen to what she said past the first few sentences then. And you didn't even really listen to those, either. You just latched onto the first sentence and then ignored everything else.
She said i'm preocupied that israel which is a genocidal state currently in process of exterminating palestinians is losing global support. The rest of what she said do not make her comment any less disgusting because the only way to stop genocide is to israel to really lose support of the western leaders.
I mentionned tucker so your claim that i didn't listen to her full statement is false. By talking about how we should listen to the perspective of zionazis she is helping actually helping tucker
Welcome to the Lemmytubes, where headlines are all 90% of us read - but don’t talk about how headlines are worded, or you’ll get a stern defense of the journalism profession!
She said those exact words. None of what she said after that make her statement less disgusting
The video kept stopping but after a few retries I got through it. It would be helpful to have a transcript. Anyway, I wasn't impressed.