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[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 76 points 7 months ago

Almost as if the interests of the American people would be better served if America didn't feel compelled to interject itself in every conflict in the world.

[-] Adkml@hexbear.net 32 points 7 months ago

Yea the really easy answer to this is "don't overcoming to ukraine and spread yourself too thin"

But I want America to fail so hopefully that really obvious answer remains an impossibility

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[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 74 points 7 months ago

Again threatening us with a good time, but unfortunately this is probably worth as much as the pile of manure western think tanks were feeding the world in Ukraine topic before.

So i read it and yup, the exact same manure and it's still sprinkled with copium

It would give China the green light to flex its power over a weakened US and cost US taxpayers an "astronomical" sum to pay for beefed-up defense spending.

"Such an outcome would bring a battered but triumphant Russian army right up to NATO's border from the Black Sea to the Arctic Ocean,"

That would mean that the US would be forced to deploy a "sizable portion" of its ground forces to Eastern Europe

Literally every paragraph is crybullying and saberratling. They really get paid heavy money for that regurgitated nonsense?

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 61 points 7 months ago

What I love the most about these articles is how they just treat the idea that US needs to dominate the world militarily as being axiomatic. It's never explained why this is in the interest of American people, it's just a given that US will have to keep expanding the military at the cost of the standard of living of its people because reasons.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 41 points 7 months ago

Imperialism is non-negotiable.

[-] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 38 points 7 months ago

It's simple, if the US stopped, the empire would fall, and then the evil China takes over. Silly tankie.

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[-] sevenapples@lemmygrad.ml 61 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

expand NATO to meet Russia's borders

cry that the russian army is right up to NATO's border

???

[-] KKSankara@lemmygrad.ml 32 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Just like when they cried that the USSR put nukes in Cuba after the US already put nukes in Turkey, and a shit load of other countries right next to the USSR. But it's the Russians that are aggressive and militaristic.

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[-] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 31 points 7 months ago

It's fine when we do it but not when they do it.

Western brain in action.

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[-] Rom@hexbear.net 48 points 7 months ago

It would give China the green light to flex its power over a weakened US and cost US taxpayers an "astronomical" sum to pay for beefed-up defense spending.

So the excessive military spending by the US empire is China's fault somehow.

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[-] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 40 points 7 months ago

“Such an outcome would bring a battered but triumphant Russian army right up to NATO’s border from the Black Sea to the Arctic Ocean,”

Wasn't that exactly what they promised Ukraine lol?

[-] GrainEater@lemmygrad.ml 38 points 7 months ago

“Such an outcome would bring a battered but triumphant Russian army right up to NATO’s border from the Black Sea to the Arctic Ocean,”

I wonder if not expanding the de facto NATO-Russia border might have prevented the expansion of the NATO-Russia border 🤔

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[-] LesbianLiberty@hexbear.net 54 points 7 months ago

Oh noooo ahahaha don't do that your so sexy ahahahaha

[-] o_d@lemmygrad.ml 52 points 7 months ago

This article feels extremely dogmatic to me. I fail to see how a renewed investment in the war effort in Ukraine doesn't pose the same problem, stretching defence resources thin, that this think tank is fear mongering over. Hell, sending more weapons to Ukraine would likely be worse since many of them will likely go "missing" anyway and Ukraine doesn't have enough men to arm with them.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 7 months ago

Right, it's not really clear what the argument here is even. To actually win in Ukraine would also require a phenomenal investment, and frankly it's pretty clear that US doesn't have a path to win in Ukraine regardless how much money it dumps into this war at this point. So, if US can't win in Ukraine then the article is really just setting up the narrative that US now has to spend untold billions on its military going forward because US wants to have a war with China next.

[-] PanArab@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 7 months ago

If the US can't win in Ukraine how will it ever win in Taiwan? China will mop the floor with it, specially if it continues to be distracted by God and oil in the Middle East. Evangelicals will drop everyone and keep propping up Israel until the US goes broke.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 7 months ago

I don't understand what they're hoping for there either to be honest. Any adult with a functioning brain can see that starting shit with China would be an utter disaster for US.

[-] CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 7 months ago

If they turn the country into a war machine they give themselves a chance to reset the board like they did in the 40s. It is deeply ingrained in the US zeitgeist to think this way. It is both profitable for the MIC and synergizes with settler nightmares and our expectations of the US being the preiminent, sovereign, and morally legitimate civilization in the world. The benifit is as much spiritual as it is anything else but the material gains may be more than we think because the only way to bring back a golden age is to, as usual, make someone else pay for it. I hear it from people that don't agree with the US government about much of anything that they are willing to participate in nationalism if it means the US keeps its place on top. We will likely have to find out just how anti imperialist US citizens really are and I assume there will be some disappointment.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 30 points 7 months ago

Thing is that doing that would require massive government intervention, and that's just not possible in the current political climate. Just look at how the whole CHIPS act is going, rebuilding domestic industry to support a MIC that could take on China would require an effort that's orders of magnitude bigger than that. On top of that, there are demographic limitations here as well. You need an education system that can produce skilled workers, you need people who can operate factories, engineers, scientists, etc. It will literally take decades to create the workforce able to build the infrastructure necessary.

[-] relay@lemmygrad.ml 51 points 7 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Don't they understand that the US already gave China everything that it needs to thrive? All of their current political objectives can be accomplished without invading a dying empire. They don't need to be the perfect trading partner, just better than the US/EU. They have developed their productive forces to be a high quality goods manufacturer.

[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 39 points 7 months ago

The US and NATO also drove Russia straight into China's arms for the foreseeable future, securing much of China's raw materials via transit routes that are exceptionally hard to interdict either politically or militarily.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 7 months ago

I think that's precisely where the panic comes from. Neocons are starting to realize that China is pulling ahead of the US economically, and it's now a more important trading partner than US for majority of the world. US is frantically trying to find a way to derail China's progress in any way possible.

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[-] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 48 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

So in essence, this "Institute for the Study of War" is cudgeling the Democrats to give the Republicans exactly what they want, and totally shut down the southern border so that materiel can resume and continue flowing into ukronazi hands; otherwise "muh China". Am I missing anything here? Seriously, I feel like I'm watching the mask slip off the uniparty's face as the two hands bicker amongst each other.

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[-] NikkiB@lemmygrad.ml 44 points 7 months ago

"If we stop funding Ukraine, Putin will take over the whole country!"

Yeah, that's why the Russians are digging in and consolidating their gains instead of pushing forward. I guess they're planning on walking through those fields they just mined to hell and back... also "muh Taiwan!"

Reading articles from the western liberal press is like stepping into an alternate dimension.

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[-] lil_tank@lemmygrad.ml 40 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

"China could invade another country"

Either they're clueless about the fact that a PRC ROC war would be a civil war according to international law, or they're trying to act like China is going to invade... idk, India? Vietnam? Singapore? Makes zero sense

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 7 months ago

I don't think making sense is the goal of that article.

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[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 39 points 7 months ago
[-] davel@lemmygrad.ml 38 points 7 months ago

The geopolitics of

📽️

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This is a real nothingburger article. It's literally just "The US was hoping it would win this war it started, because losing will cost them more."

And of course they throw in China there, which gets barely a mention in the article (they even accidentally admit that the only reason Taiwan hasn't reunified is because of US meddling.) It's just bog standard "think tank" stuff of "You'd better give the MIC more money, we're experts, so give them more money, they need more money. More."

EDIT: I guess it does detail the US's overall plans once they lose. They will probably make Europe pay huge amounts for "advanced" and very expensive weapons, seems like they'll be pushing all the losses onto Europe. Sounds like Europe's going to have to make some "austerity measures" of their own so the ghouls in Washington can continue to exploit someone.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 7 months ago

I expect Europe is very much getting fucked here. I also get the impression that once project Ukraine collapses, then US is planning to refocus on trying to start shit with China. And this is really what these types of articles are laying the ground for. I bet the narrative is going to be that US can't lose Taiwan like Ukraine, so there has to be unlimited military support for it.

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Most likely. The difference is that China's government isn't reactionary like Russia's government, so they won't fall for the US's obvious traps. The only way the US can really escalate things in the region is if they cross China's red line, which even their most hardcore allies will find hard to justify (not to mention, it would need to be done without the approval of the people of Taiwan, who wouldn't want to be pulled into a major war with with the mainland)

I guess it'll come down to them either assuming they can handle Taiwan exactly like Ukraine (and fail) or act like China is exactly the same as it was 30 years ago (and fail) I can't see them pressing this issue any other way, because if they did, they wouldn't be pressing it at all.

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[-] Mzuark@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 7 months ago
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[-] ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 7 months ago

275 (206 New)

Lib wandered in again I see

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this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2023
83 points (94.6% liked)

Death to NATO

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