this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Now that's a good troll math thing because it gets really deep into the weeds of mathematical notation. There isn't one true order of operations that is objectively correct, and on top of that, that's hardly the way most people would write that. As in, if you wrote that by hand, you wouldn't use the / symbol. You'd either use ÷ or a proper fraction.

It's a good candidate for nerd sniping.

Personally, I'd call that 36 as written given the context you're saying it in, instead of calling it 1. But I'd say it's ambiguous and you should notate in a way to avoid ambiguities. Especially if you're in the camp of multiplication like a(b) being different from ab and/or a × b.

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There isn’t one true order of operations that is objectively correct

Yes there is, as found in Maths textbooks the world over

that’s hardly the way most people would write that

Maths textbooks write it that way

you wouldn’t use the / symbol

Yes you would.

You’d either use ÷

Same same

It’s a good candidate for nerd sniping.

Here's one I prepared earlier to save you the trouble

I’d call that 36

And you'd be wrong

as written given the context you’re saying it in

The context is Maths, you have to obey the rules of Maths. a(b+c)=(ab+ac), 5(8-5)=(5x8-5x5).

But I’d say it’s ambiguous

And you'd be wrong about that too

you should notate in a way to avoid ambiguities

It already is notated in a way that avoids all ambiguities!

Especially if you’re in the camp of multiplication like a(b)

That's not Multiplication, it's Distribution, a(b+c)=(ab+ac), a(b)=(axb).

being different from ab

Nope, that's exactly the same, ab=(axb) by definition

and/or a × b

(axb) is most certainly different to axb. 1/ab=1/(axb), 1/axb=b/a

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Please read this section of Wikipedia which talks about these topics better than I could. It shows that there is ambiguity in the order of operations and that for especially niche cases there is not a universally accepted order of operations when dealing with mixed division and multiplication. It addresses everything you've mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations#Mixed_division_and_multiplication

There is no universal convention for interpreting an expression containing both division denoted by '÷' and multiplication denoted by '×'. Proposed conventions include assigning the operations equal precedence and evaluating them from left to right, or equivalently treating division as multiplication by the reciprocal and then evaluating in any order;[10] evaluating all multiplications first followed by divisions from left to right; or eschewing such expressions and instead always disambiguating them by explicit parentheses.[11]

Beyond primary education, the symbol '÷' for division is seldom used, but is replaced by the use of algebraic fractions,[12] typically written vertically with the numerator stacked above the denominator – which makes grouping explicit and unambiguous – but sometimes written inline using the slash or solidus symbol '/'.[13]

Multiplication denoted by juxtaposition (also known as implied multiplication) creates a visual unit and is often given higher precedence than most other operations. In academic literature, when inline fractions are combined with implied multiplication without explicit parentheses, the multiplication is conventionally interpreted as having higher precedence than division, so that e.g. 1 / 2n is interpreted to mean 1 / (2 · n) rather than (1 / 2) · n.[2][10][14][15] For instance, the manuscript submission instructions for the Physical Review journals directly state that multiplication has precedence over division,[16] and this is also the convention observed in physics textbooks such as the Course of Theoretical Physics by Landau and Lifshitz[c] and mathematics textbooks such as Concrete Mathematics by Graham, Knuth, and Patashnik.[17] However, some authors recommend against expressions such as a / bc, preferring the explicit use of parenthesis a / (bc).[3]

More complicated cases are more ambiguous. For instance, the notation 1 / 2π(a + b) could plausibly mean either 1 / [2π · (a + b)] or [1 / (2π)] · (a + b).[18] Sometimes interpretation depends on context. The Physical Review submission instructions recommend against expressions of the form a / b / c; more explicit expressions (a / b) / c or a / (b / c) are unambiguous.[16]

Image of two calculators getting different answers 6÷2(1+2) is interpreted as 6÷(2×(1+2)) by a fx-82MS (upper), and (6÷2)×(1+2) by a TI-83 Plus calculator (lower), respectively.

This ambiguity has been the subject of Internet memes such as "8 ÷ 2(2 + 2)", for which there are two conflicting interpretations: 8 ÷ [2 · (2 + 2)] = 1 and (8 ÷ 2) · (2 + 2) = 16.[15][19] Mathematics education researcher Hung-Hsi Wu points out that "one never gets a computation of this type in real life", and calls such contrived examples "a kind of Gotcha! parlor game designed to trap an unsuspecting person by phrasing it in terms of a set of unreasonably convoluted rules".[12]

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Please read this section of Wikipedia which talks about these topics better than I could

Please read Maths textbooks which explain it better than Joe Blow Your next Door neighbour on Wikipedia. there's plenty in here

It shows that there is ambiguity in the order of operations

and is wrong about that, as proven by Maths textbooks

especially niche cases there is not a universally accepted order of operations when dealing with mixed division and multiplication

That's because Multiplication and Division can be done in any order

It addresses everything you’ve mentioned

wrongly, as per Maths textbooks

Multiplication denoted by juxtaposition (also known as implied multiplication)

Nope. Terms/Products is what they are called. "implied multiplication" is a "rule" made up by people who have forgotten the actual rules.

s often given higher precedence than most other operations

Always is, because brackets first. ab=(axb) by definition

1 / 2n is interpreted to mean 1 / (2 · n)

As per the definition that ab=(axb), 1/2n=1/(2xn).

[2][10][14][15]

Did you look at the references, and note that there are no Maths textbooks listed?

the manuscript submission instructions for the Physical Review journals

Which isn't a Maths textbook

the convention observed in physics textbooks

Also not Maths textbooks

mathematics textbooks such as Concrete Mathematics by Graham, Knuth, and Patashnik

Actually that is a Computer Science textbook, written for programmers. Knuth is a very famous programmer

More complicated cases are more ambiguous

None of them are ambiguous.

the notation 1 / 2π(a + b) could plausibly mean either 1 / [2π · (a + b)]

It does as per the rules of Maths, but more precisely it actually means 1 / (2πa + 2πb)

or [1 / (2π)] · (a + b).[18]

No, it can't mean that unless it was written (1 / 2π)(a + b), which it wasn't

Sometimes interpretation depends on context

Nope, never

more explicit expressions (a / b) / c or a / (b / c) are unambiguous

a/b/c is already unambiguous - left to right. 🙄

Image of two calculators getting different answers

With the exception of Texas Instruments, all the other calculator manufacturers have gone back to doing it correctly, and Sharp have always done it correctly.

6÷2(1+2) is interpreted as 6÷(2×(1+2))

6÷(2x1+2x2) actually, as per The Distributive Law, a(b+c)=(ab+ac)

(6÷2)×(1+2) by a TI-83 Plus calculator (lower)

Yep, Texas Instruments is the only one still doing it wrong

This ambiguity

doesn't exist, as per Maths textbooks

“8 ÷ 2(2 + 2)”, for which there are two conflicting interpretations:

No there isn't - you MUST obey The Distributive Law, a(b+c)=(ab+ac)

Mathematics education researcher Hung-Hsi Wu points out that “one never gets a computation of this type in real life”

And he was wrong about that. 🙄

calls such contrived examples

Which notably can be found in Maths textbooks

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If you believe the article is incorrect, submit your corrections to Wikipedia instead of telling me.

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If you believe the article is incorrect, submit your corrections to Wikipedia

You know they've rejected corrections by actual Maths Professors right? Just look for Rick Norwood in the talk section. Everyone who knows Maths knows Wikipedia is wrong, and looks in the right place to begin with - Maths textbooks

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Again, if you have a problem with Wikipedia, take it up with Wikipedia.

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Again, if you have a problem with Wikipedia, take it up with Wikipedia

You've made the mistake of thinking they care. Again, look for Rick Norwood in the Talk sections, an actual Maths professor (bless him for continually trying to get them to correct the mistakes though)

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Take it up with them if you have a problem with them.

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Take it up with them if you have a problem with them

I see you're not even reading what I said. No wonder you don't know how to do Maths...

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I did read everything you said and I do know how to do math. I hope you are able to enact the change you want to see in Wikipedia and the article. Good luck.

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I did read everything you said

Clearly you didn't, given you keep telling me to take it up with Harvard/Wiki

enact the change you want to see in Wikipedia

See?? There you go again ignoring what I told you about Wikipedia 🙄

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I haven't ignored anything you said. I'm telling you that if you have a problem with those that you should contact them to fix them.

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I haven’t ignored anything you said.

You've ignored everything I've said about Wikipedia.

I’m telling you that if you have a problem with those that you should contact them to fix them

and you have again ignored what I told you about them 🙄

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's funny that you define "ignore" as "not doing what you tell someone to" because by that definition you've been ignoring me too. Go edit the article if you feel this strongly.

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It’s funny that you define “ignore” as “not doing what you tell someone to”

Nope, I didn't.

because by that definition you’ve been ignoring me too

I'm ignoring the person failing to cite Maths textbooks, yes, that's correct.

Go edit the article if you feel this strongly

Go read what I said about what happens when ACTUAL MATHS PROFESSORS have tried to do EXACTLY THAT 🙄

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Go tell Wikipedia about that, not me. It's a community you can join. You very clearly feel very strongly about it. Talking to me about it isn't going to change anything.

[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Go tell Wikipedia about that, not me

I'm telling you, the person pretending that it's mathematically valid information

It’s a community you can join

Yep, and be defeated, just like the Maths Professor Rick Norwood was, repeatedly.

You very clearly feel very strongly about it.

Maths textbooks, yes, which you keep ignoring

Talking to me about it isn’t going to change anything

And you talking about it isn't going to change that you are wrong

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] SmartmanApps@programming.dev -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Open a textbook

I've been telling you to do that the whole time and you still refuse 😂

Tell them, not me

Tell them you refuse to open a Maths textbook? 😂

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 1 week ago

Yes. Go tell Wikipedia that I won't open a textbook.