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this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2024
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Unpopular Opinion
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You have a strange definition of fascism. I've poked around in those instances to see what the fuss is about. They're super far left and very much ideologically opposed to fascism. They're something weird, but they're definitely not fascists.
They idolize left authoritarians. And their talking points are summed up by if "the west" says it, the opposite is true. And they will argue with you.
So fascism is a term that is thrown around incorrectly a lot, blocking these people does help improve your Lemmy experience.
Based on my observations, some of them support present and past left-authoritarians, but most don't. They're definitely critical of the west, but I think there's room for that criticism here.
It's kind of funny when they post about Ukraine. They're anti-NATO and anti-Putin, so they sometimes seem confused which side they're on.
That is your confusion, my friend. You think you have to pick one of two sides, and they know differently.
What?
I am curious why you think people need to pick sides. And why you think there are only two sides. It's such a peculiar thing, and it suggests that you want polarization so you make simple arguments. But reality is complex.
I didn't say or suggest people need to pick a side.
Ah, maybe I clicked on the wrong thing. My apologies.
2 party conflicts generally have 2 sides to choose from. I’d like to support Poland in the war between Ukraine and Russia but the mechanics of the act aren’t readily apparent.
Right. It's not a 2-party conflict. There are two countries, but within each country are many groups of people with wildly different priorities.
For example... Does a military general worry much if one farm house is destroyed? Of course not. But the farmer sure does. We can argue about whose fault it is, Russia or Ukraine, but that doesn't bring back the property.
Sure, but subdividing isn’t particularly useful in this case. Russia quashes dissent with jail time, effectively creating a cohesive group through violence. Ukraine is a united front because it has to be. If someone were to begin talking about dissidents, that’d be an entirely different, and valuable, conversation. Speaking about the farmer whose barn was torched and grain stolen is still, to most, just talking about Ukraine.
An army general has vastly different goals than a farmer, or a grandmother, or an elementary school student, or even a private first class. This is not really debatable, is it?
You are very correct. This is why we argue so much on Lemmy; so many people think you have to pick between two sides.
They support Russia and the CCP, both of which have the warning signs of Fascism. Even if you want to call it something else, doesn't change that it's terrible.
Fascists believe in inequality based on identity. And most on lemmygrad agree that Russia is a far right regime.
I don't know lemmygrad. I know lemmy.ml and gave up on that when I was just having the same discussions, and the same debunking points over and over again. I don't have the energy for politics 24/7, especially when I don't think any predominate political group cares about me or the problems I care about.
Most agree? You linked a post without votes or comments...
Huh, that's weird. Try again? But surprisingly it's also on web-archive
Yikes, seems like the American right wing is fascist too. What's bizarre about all of this is that the tankies are very much opposed to the American right too. So they're anti-fascist? It seems that they're so opposed to western capital that they'll cheer for some really shitty governments because they're also fighting western capital.
They aren't left in any meaningful way. Let alone far left. What they are is wildly hypocritical and authoritarian. While they are technically not fascists. Realistically they're nearly identical. They are both both authoritarian ideologies. With no room for any meaningful right or left. And should you dissent you will find yourself silenced or killed just the same as any other authoritarian/fascist government structure.
No, that's not really correct. They're pro-democracy since true communism requires democracy. They believe western governments have been captured by capitalists and therefore need to be opposed. That's why they tend to cheer for authoritarian regimes because they're fighting what they consider to be the good fight. They believe that once western capitalism has been defeated, communism can finally flourish, since the only reason communist governments are authoritarian is to protect themselves from the west.
True, communism does require democracy. Which is why they aren't truly communist or democratic. Democracy is kind of the opposite of silencing and killing those that go against the party. Ya know? Lol next you'll try to tell me that North Korea is actually a Democratic People's Republic.
Okay don't listen. Whatever.
I've heard it several times. It doesn't get any more true no matter how much you repeat it. It would take another revolution before they would actually switch to communism. ML are just about as bad as the imperialist capitalists they hate in most measures. Far worse in others. They both suck in their whataboutism of the other.
What am I repeating? You're trying to have an argue against points I am not making. Go to lemmygrad if you want to argue with them.
They sure like to glorify countries that will arrest or kill you for being gay. So there's that.
Which is bizarre, done since they screen for lgbt haters when you try to sign up
Found the fascist! /s
^I'm ^just ^referencing ^the ^movie ^and ^being ^silly, ^not ^actually ^calling ^you ^a ^hag ^lol
They deleted a comment in which I quoted the first line of the Wikipedia article on social democracy. The reason given was "misinformation".
Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, forcible suppression of opposition.
I can very much see how that would apply.
Isnt that just authoritarianism, not specifically facism?
Sort of yeah, although authoritarianism doesn't have as much implication to a centralized autocracy or dictatorial leader.
I think one could argue that the mods are a centralized autocracy, but it'd be hard to argue there's a dictatorial leader, perhaps, unless there's some "main" mod. Idk. I'm fairly new to this whole Fediverse thing, just came in a week or two ago from Reddit.
Also, imo, political labels are just sort of... subjective. There's wiggle-room in definitions and practices. I think the reality of what is happening matters more than what label we use to describe it, but the label we do use helps people understand what we're talking about. Although, sometimes, it obviously also misleads, as the connotations and implications and definitions vary.
But I would agree with you that "fascism" is often too easily equated to authoritarianism that isn't necessarily far-right in the same way. It's just a convenient colloquial shortcut, essentially.
I would argue that fascism is indeed characterized by those things, but fascism is associated with the right, not the left. You're not a fascist if your trying to create equality for all, even if your actions are crazy. It's something else, but not facism.
Well, it's gonna be hard to accurately label all the mad authoritarian bastards we've had.
Some called Stalinism "red fascism", but yes, I do get your point.
My point is rather that, like "literally", "fascism" has started veering away from the prescriptive, "official" meaning it has, and more towards a (colloquial) generalised term for autocrats and authoritarian behaviour. Colloquial language is what it is, unfortunately.
Yeah I know. I think it's mostly people new to the topic not understanding the nuances. But that still worries me since it seems wrong to lump communists in the same group as fascists. Seems almost sinister imo. The two groups could not stand for more different things.
It's problematic that a lot of people conflate communism with fascism and/or authoritarianism.
Communism might be ideological, sure, but it's not a form of government, it's an economic system. No, I don't believe any preplanned economy (which "real" communism sort of requires) would work in this day and age. However, I can definitely imagine it working in the far future.
It's not especially well explained how the economy works in Star Trek, but that is communism, and I don't see much fascism there.
(CCCP was autocratic communism, just so we're clear on what their system of government was.)
I believe it's largely due to the red scare. Which is also why so many Americans and (wannabe-American libertarians) conflate "socialism" with "communism". The same people also have a milder issue, conflating "capitalism" with "market economy."
I literally had a guy tell me "fascism is preferable to communism". And this guy lives in Finland and was from an academic bourgeoisie family, so should have basic education on what fascism actually is.
But no, they don't fucking get it.
I used to wonder, as a younger man, how on Earth the Nazi ever gathered enough support. I thought it's maybe one of those "fool me once" things, and people in the early 20th century weren't as connected or literate as we are.
But now it's happening again? Despite us having seen what happened last time? Despite us having unlimited connections to literally the whole world and it's information?
It just... depresses me so. I want to fight the windmills, but always having to fight alone is exhausting.
Yeah it's actually refreshing to see their pov on things, don't always agree but they bring up good points
hexbear in particular is very supportive of marginalized groups and positive in general. I'm glad lemm.ee didn't defederate with the ml boogeymen
I put up with hexbear for awhile, but I ended up blocking them eventually.
Sure, they don't mind explaining their points if you're careful about asking. But god forbid you express disagreement. If you aren't with them completely, you're a fascist.
That's fair game. If they express their opinion at Lemmy.world we would also ~~lable~~ label them as fascist. Their community is their safe sanctuary where they can do unto others, what others do unto them.
If you say so. It isn't really my problem anymore either way. They can be insufferable by themselves if that's what they truly want
If you disagree with American imperialism constantly overthrowing every government in existence, and israel doing Genocide, you are a Fascist!
Here's the thing, if you disagree with American imperialism but you're actively cheering on Russian imperialism, you're a hypocrite.
It's fine to be polarized against the actions of the American government. There are quite a lot of people who are, even within the states. It's fine to be polarized against the west. Being at least wary of the west permeates pretty much everywhere in the east.
It's not fine to call out imperialism from the west with one side of your mouth and praise imperialism from the east with the other side. And brother, I haven't met someone on the tankie communities that doesn't get a hard on simping for the Russian war.
They'll say Russia is bad if you push them.
And then they'll continue to defend Putin literally every chance they get.