256
submitted 1 month ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Summary

Regardless of Putin’s decision regarding the war in Ukraine, Russia’s economy is facing a crisis due to factors such as sanctions, a shrinking sovereign wealth fund, and a labor shortage. The war has boosted growth, but Russia cannot sustain it without significant economic consequences.

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[-] DragonConsort@pawb.social 59 points 1 month ago

I'm not an economist or even especially well informed, but... Isn't war kind of... You know. Expensive?

Yeah I know it could pay off in the long term if you just swept up a country's worth of innocents, genocided them and grabbed their land (Hi Israel), but... Fuck up the war badly enough, and there's not going to BE a long term, just because the economy collapses. Right?

[-] Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee 45 points 1 month ago

Bold of you to assume China will just let russia collapse. Ideally, China economically subjugates Russia and makes it essentially a satellite state

All China wants is the mineral and petroleum reserves in Siberia. They don’t give a fuck about the population centers in western Russia.

[-] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago

I'm sure they can be re-educated as well as any other minority... (/s but not really)

[-] Badeendje@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

And water..Beijing needs water and lake Baikal is around the corner.

[-] Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Really. There's nothing in Russia that can't be had easier just by buying it. And all the Russians worth a damn have gotten the hell out of Russia.

Remember that China is having a bit of an economic crisis at the moment

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 26 points 1 month ago

The plan is to split Russia, the west bit (with the people) goes to Europe to deal with, the east bit (with the land and more resources than God) goes to China.

And that gives us all 50-100 years of peace while both sides slowly digest what they have to deal with.

Yes, Europe gets the shitty half of this deal, but they also get security, and the only person to ever successfully charge from China, across the whole Russian steppe to attack Europe was Genghis Khan, doubt that's happening again.

[-] fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago

I think it was his heir Ogedei Kahn

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Yeah, my bad.

[-] Zron@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Genghis didn’t have access to thousands of poorly assembled Humvee knockoffs and millions of poorly trained mechanics to make them somewhat functional. I’m sure some of them could survive the drive.

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

The only drivable thing that would survive that is a Toyota pickup because they are unkillable

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 29 points 1 month ago

War being expensive is especially ruinous with modern (ie anytime past the 18th century AD) countries being deeply interconnected through market systems. All that money just pissed away trying to grab someone else's land? Every other country in the world was investing that money in material or human capital incentives. When peacetime returns, unless you have a massive waiting market for your war economy production (like the US after WW1 and WW2), you will be at a massive disadvantage in the world market - causing a large number of domestic industries to suffer as they're undercut by products of either superior pricing/availability, quality, or both.

At this point, you can swing towards protectionism - but that will reduce the standard of living and efficiency of domestic industry as well, and potentially lead to backlash from other countries imposing protectionist policies in kind, damaging your exports and leaving your nation even poorer. So at the end of the day, no matter what you do, you've fucked over your own industries and budget for years at minimum, requiring significant political capital and competence in government just to make up the difference and catch up to the rest of the world - and that's not even getting into damage done to diplomatic reputations, actual loss of materiel, and the sheer human cost of throwing people into the meat grinder.

War requiring a war economy is a no-win scenario in the vast majority of cases.

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago

Yes, but in this case most of the Russian economy was safely being invested in British banks and real estate.

So for Russian leaders it was a no-lose scenario, until Britain had the balls to actually join the sanctions because they started assassinating people in London.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago

Harris voters are far more motivated to keep Trump out than his supporters are to keep him in.

They did what?!

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Assuming that was a clipboard fail:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/uk-sanctions-on-russia#:~:text=This%20sanctions%20regime%20is%20aimed,on%20the%20UK%20sanctions%20list.

They're largely cut off from British banks and money transfers, and British banks are loaning money to Ukraine backed by Russian deposits and interest.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 7 points 1 month ago

Assuming that was a clipboard fail:

Yeah I have no idea what happened up there. Lemme just...

because they started assassinating people in London.

They did what?!

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago
[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)
[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Dude found in his own gym bag, right? That was fucked up.

[-] fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago

These are only the ones we know about, maybe because they wanted to use them as examples.

[-] Magister@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

yeah but for instance, Putin (having more than 200 billions $$$) and all his oligarchs friends, don't give a shit, they can live in super mansion with 23 bathrooms, high ends cars and all the refine food/wine from around the world

[-] fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

Putin and his Russian Mafia oligarchs don't mind the destruction of countless opportunities for their subjects. It's a sacrifice that they are willing to make.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 5 points 1 month ago

You'd think they'd have learned from the cold war, but I guess not.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

You’d think they’d have learned from the cold war, but I guess not.

Well, many parts of them have. Eastern Europe, formerly under Soviet conrol, is now firmly in market economies. Armenia has left the CSTO (Russia's wish.com NATO), and Ukraine famously kicked out its Russia puppet leader. All of these were part of the Soviet Union or under their control before.

[-] eran_morad@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

fuckwits don't learn from history. putin has a vast wealth of real-world failure from which to draw lessons, such as the soviet occupation of afghanistan. but, no. he needed to stroke his pencil dick over some old maps of the Blyat Empire. and now russians have to join in the suffering they brought on their cousins.

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Hard to learn when your baby formula is basically vodka.

[-] eightpix@lemmy.world 30 points 1 month ago

1000 Days. 19 November 2024.

[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

Oh boy happy fucking birthday to me I guess

[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago
[-] foggy@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I have a dream where I visit St Petersburg, Finland soon.

[-] SpikesOtherDog@ani.social 14 points 1 month ago

Finnish them.

[-] Hubi@feddit.org 7 points 1 month ago

Or maybe even Královec.

[-] Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Koenigsberg Poland should be pretty cool too.

[-] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

The damage he’s already done will last generations

[-] Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago
[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

You shouldn't. The shit that's happening today is a direct result of previous fuckers that did generational damage. This one will only continue the cycle

[-] neidu2@feddit.nl 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

They could have stopped at any time, but once their three day plan failed, putin decided to engage in a money-burning competition against a group of countries with a combined gdp roughly 25 times theirs..

[-] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 27 points 1 month ago

He's not relying on Ukraine's allies running out of money, he's betting that they'll lose interest and/or vote for pro-Russian stooges before he loses the ability to win the war.

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

For him this is the best possible outcome. He remains relevant and firmly planted on the throne until he dies. Endless but not very active trench war is his dream, even a victory, whatever that could look like, is worse for him

[-] Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Good. Russia deserves generations of misery for what they've done to Ukraine.

[-] bigFab@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

...not if he wins the war. Like japanese in late WWII. Die hungry or die fighting.

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 month ago

Nah, not even then

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Not only there is almost no possible scenario of him winning by any possible sane metric, there is no reality when Russia is recovering from this shit without fundamental changes. Whatever win can be, it's impossible and wouldn't help.

[-] bigFab@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

I absolutely agree with you on the impossibility to win by Russia, unlike most people nowadays. Like the ones who are sure Russia will win the instant Trump gets to office. Not even close to military complex and diplomacy realities.

About recovering economy, history proves the loser always loses big. Russia would never recover from war reparations + sanctions, unless it completely became a Nato satellite state, like Germany and Japan did after WWII. Of course we all know that will never happen with Russia.

Just to remember the only State in history to pay full war reparations is Finland and they did no big destruction.

[-] eran_morad@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago
[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

How sweet is sound!

[-] MediaBiasFactChecker@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago

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this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2024
256 points (97.1% liked)

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