Actually, those are not the same. Natural numbers include zero, positive integers do not. She shoud definately use 'big naturals'.
Edit: although you could argue that it doesnt matter as 0 is arguably neither big nor large
this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2025
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Natural numbers only include zero if you define it so in the beginning of your book/paper/whatever. Otherwise it's ambiguous and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Fair enough, as a computer scientist I got tought to use the Neumann definition, which includes zero, unless stated differently by the author. But for general mathematics, I guess it's used both ways.
Natural numbers include zero
That is a divisive opinion and not actually a fact
Yeah, it's a matter of convention rather than opinion really, but among US academia the convention is to exclude 0 from the naturals. I think in France they include it.
positive interers with addition are not a monoid though, since the identity element of addition is 0
They're not a complete algebraically closed field either, but I don't see you advocating for including e - i in the natural numbers!
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Big naturals in fact include two zeroes:
(o ) ( o)
Spaces and parens added for clarity
Depends on how you draw it.
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I googled "Big Naturals". Result number 16 was this:
Should've been number 1.
Also in an aqueous environment, they become floating point values.
Gandalf's large positive integers
Like that?
Oh wow. Do we have a lemmy community for that?
be the change you want to see!
This actually got a chuckle out of me. Prob the first number related joke I've laughed at.
Large nonnegative numbers*
If they're big the zero is skipped anyway
Just write it bigger.
Thanks for the comment - - I will fight for recognizing zero as a natural number
In mathematics, the natural numbers are the numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, and so on, possibly excluding 0.[1] Some start counting with 0, defining the natural numbers as the non-negative integers 0, 1, 2, 3, ..., while others start with 1, defining them as the positive integers 1, 2, 3, ... .[a] Some authors acknowledge both definitions whenever convenient.[2] Sometimes, the whole numbers are the natural numbers as well as zero. In other cases, the whole numbers refer to all of the integers, including negative integers.[3] The counting numbers are another term for the natural numbers, particularly in primary education, and are ambiguous as well although typically start at 1.
So it is undefined behavior, great
Yes. Some mathematicians think that 0 is natural, others don't. So "natural number" is ambiguous.
In order to avoid ambiguity, instead of using fancy "N", you should use fancy "N0" to refer to {0,1,2,3,4,...} and "positive integers" to refer to {1,2,3,4,...}.
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Big Naturals Are More Pronounced
ftfy
Don't get me started on the unnatural and supernatural numbers.
I don't care if they're big, as long as they're real
I don't care if they're real, as long as I can manipulate them
They're Real, and they're fantastic.
You like big figures and you cannot lie?
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Natural Numbers ≠ Integers though.
In spite of that, I'm chuckling. Math can be funny sometimes 😂
Positive integers are (a subset of) natural numbers
Why a subset? They're the same thing right? I guess it could be about the zero?
you answered your own question
Well what I learned in school was that zero was both positive and negative. I knew some people consider the natural numbers don't include zero, but I didn't know for some zero isn't even positive.
it is neither positive nor negative
I knew a physicist who considered 0 negative if she arrived at 0 coming from negative source numbers and positive if coming from positive sources.
Something something sampling rate
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That's true OP, "big naturals" are indeed very pronounced.
big badonka-donkadonks
I just say “big’uns”
Why, would anyone at all think about something else?
/s
we like to see those Double negative intergers.
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