this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2025

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A little more control ceded to the fascists, and we'll have a REAL Revolutionary Crisis(tm) which we can use to Right This Country! (lemmy.world)

submitted 3 weeks ago by PugJesus@lemmy.world to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 27 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

Meanwhile, the actual results of ceding the government to fascists is... increasingly right-wing leanings in the general population

Waoh but no, if we can just SHOW those damn SHITLIBS that they'll never win, the inner socialist heart of The People will perk up and we'll lead the masses singing the Internationale straight to DC. That's how Popular Support works!

Fuck all that loser groundwork shit, that's boring and doesn't make us feel very revolutionary, while STICKING IT to THE MAN makes us feel fantastic as millions of disadvantaged folk are marked for death.

Voting may not fix the country, but not voting can sure as fuck make it worse.

[–] ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org 12 points 3 weeks ago

Democracy only works in combination with education. We are currently missing the latter so the best things you can do in the long run is educate everything else will only change things temporarily but makes them worse over time.

[–] NotANumber@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What is groundwork? I haven't heard this term before. Is it things like protesting and voting? Propagnda? Having conversations with everyday people? Or are those something else?

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Getting ready, essentially; 'groundwork' as in 'preparing the ground for a building'. Propaganda, conversations, organization, convincing people, the basic, preliminary steps to action.

[–] knightly@pawb.social 3 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

When do you think the Democrats plan to start on the groundwork?

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm pretty sure it's fucking up to us.

[–] knightly@pawb.social 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Joined a union yet?

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm a freelance contractor, man.

[–] knightly@pawb.social 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Freelancers' Unions are a thing too.

[–] NotANumber@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They are?

[–] knightly@pawb.social 2 points 3 weeks ago

They don't have as much power as worker's unions structurally but they do perform many of the same functions, yes

[–] Iceman@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

By actively sabotage it at every opportunity, we se it in New York right now. These people have just given up, believing themself clever for accepting a slightly slower decline and resent everyone else.

[–] ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Meanwhile, I'm here saying "both".

Do both.

Actually go help your neighbor in person. Directly. Personally. Help your fucking neighbor.

If you want Lefties excited to go vote, give us something to vote for instead of against where the Centrist Libs concede to the Fash every god damn time.

What are your thoughts on Zohran Mamdani? Give me candidates like that, and I'll bring 20 non-voters to the polls, and each will cast a ballot.

Give me another Clinton, another Cuomo, another Biden? Sorry, when I vote, I vote alone - and this isn't up to me.

Which way, Western Man? Grow the voter base, grow the party? or grow the campaign warchest from donors that want both sides indebted to their lobbyists?

How we vote in the Primary is how we can get money out of politics.

In the meantime, have you made a sandwich to give away to a stranger? Have you handed a history book to a stranger? Have you had conversations about WHY Fascism doesn't address our neighbors' needs?

Your lack of groundwork is disturbing. For as much as you care, you come off like a filthy Casual this way. Let's fix that?

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

How we vote in the Primary is how we can get money out of politics.

God, I just want to crush the neoliberals, to hear the lamentations of their political commentators, to see their empty suits driven before me, on ONE fucking primary before I die.

[–] ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

This is a hilarious and I relate, but it doesn't actually help us. Or anyone. One sandwich to a homeless man? Is more actual benefit to the world than saying this.

Unless you go and start a conversation with a Red-hatter this way. Get them riled up and cheering for how you HATE the same people they do, and use it to glean some motivation deeper than "owning the libs."

Then you can maybe, just maybe talk to a voter about how society has left them behind too. From experience, they have the same concerns, fears, pressures as what drives people to the Left, its just been twisted by gaslighting propaganda about who we are. Before I could bring this red-hatter to a pride parade, they need a LOT of therapy. But for many there is realistic hope.

You still haven't commented on Mamdani, and that disappoints me.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

This is a hilarious and I relate, but it doesn’t actually help us. Or anyone.

I... wasn't trying to help anyone by saying it? Other than venting for my own benefit?

Unless you go and start a conversation with a Red-hatter this way. Get them riled up and cheering for how you HATE the same people they do, and use it to glean some motivation deeper than “owning the libs.”

Bruh. I lived in a deeply conservative area for most of my life. My social circles were deeply conservative, and I feigned being 'apolitical' to avoid having to go nuclear at a time when my living position was precarious.

Thinking that there's a commonality of dislike there is falling for the extremely thin mask they put on whenever some liberal gives them pushback. It's not real. They immediately drop the mask when around people they think are similar to them.

The people they hate aren't 'the elite' as you or I would recognize them. The people they hate aren't 'politicians' as you or I would recognize them. They have deeper motivations than 'owning the libs', but not more wholesome ones, I assure you. Being a metaphorical bump-on-a-log who isn't suspected of liberalism lets you hear some gruesome truths about the principles of conservatives.

You still haven’t commented on Mamdani, and that disappoints me.

... fucking what? I've commented numerous times on Mamdani??

[–] ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

fucking what? I've commented numerous times on Mamdani??

My bad, I'll dig thru your profile for that.

Bruh. I lived in a deeply conservative area for most of my life. My social circles were deeply conservative, and I feigned being 'apolitical' to avoid having to go nuclear at a time when my living position was precarious.

I feel that, and I can relate. I'm less precarious today.

Thinking that there's a commonality of dislike there is falling for the extremely thin mask they put on whenever some liberal gives them pushback. It's not real. They immediately drop the mask when around people they think are similar to them.

Oh, that? That's not what I'm talking about for a motive. But in retrospect, I can see how I read that way.

We have to distinguish between a spectrum of rightwingers - the ones who know the dogwhistles are such, and those who are so uneducated they bought the frame of "small government" as good in its own right because "everyone agrees". Like it's a religion they were raised in.

"Hating the elites" (whatever that means) isn't a coherent political idea as a result. Having 3 jobs and being pissed that you're still broke? That's a coherent political thought they don't even have the vocabulary to express.

Is the "elite-hate" just antisemitism pretending to look vaguely leftish? Potentially. Or has this dudebro been so starved of literacy that he takes the dogwhistle unironically, but won't connect "billionaire" with that on his own? This is a spectrum.

I'd rather find and talk to the drive of "why am I still poor when I work this hard?"

If an upscale clothing store manager steps to me talking about "these kids don't know how to work," I'm acknowledging how exhausted he looks. His is not a life of dignity, and I will say this to him. The education system has failed him through his trainees, and he is being asked to pick up the slack. Where are bank tellers going to come from when kids graduate unable to count money? What kind of AI are data scientists going to build when they don't understand what each statistics distribution describes?

We are failing to invest in our country, and he will either see how this affects him personally, or he will walk away seething. If he brings up DEI or trans anything, or immigrant crime? I have a one-liner to address it and move back to the real conversation - you work too hard bro, and its because our systems are failing.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

“Hating the elites” (whatever that means) isn’t a coherent political idea as a result. Having 3 jobs and being pissed that you’re still broke? That’s a coherent political thought they don’t even have the vocabulary to express.

Alright, but many of them take a perverse pride in poverty, don't work three jobs, and quite explicitly love the elite. Like, the level of idolization of rich folk who share their dogwhistles that goes on is insane.

If you've never seen a Trump flag with Rambo's body on it, count yourself lucky. And it's not a new trend either. Wealth means people are 'smart' and 'hardworking', unless they start talking all liberal-like. The 'elites' they hate are not the people who drain their meagre wealth away from them, they're the people that make them feel insecure - doctors, lawyers, career politicians who don't suck them off.

Is the “elite-hate” just antisemitism pretending to look vaguely leftish? Potentially.

Not even, though. Elite hate isn't a smokescreen for something more nefarious - step back, take in the full view of their position, and it is literally just that - hate for elites. The issue is that the 'elites' they despise are people who make them feel 'lesser' intellectually.

And the worst part is, many of these people are not stupid, inherently. But they've been raised to see incuriosity about their preconceptions as a virtue. They will simultaneously express what a BADASS REBEL they are by meekly submitting to conservative social norms and what a GOOD UPSTANDING LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN they are for meekly submitting to conservative norms. And if you point it out, they see no contradiction. Which, in practice if not principle, to be fair, I suppose there isn't.

I flatter myself a bit in saying that I have a bit of an edge in arguments with most people. I used to like to argue, and got very good at it - now I argue out of exhausted obligation and the knowledge that letting points go uncontested in a social circle lets them multiply, which results in very unpleasant social circles. Let me tell you, the insanity of giving gentle pushback and maneuvering a conservative into a position where they state something in reverse of their position (such as from 'politicians need more power' to 'politicians need less power') while still maintaining their original position is...

1984 had it fucking right, man. The level of people to engage in doublethink is overwhelming.

If an upscale clothing store manager steps to me talking about “these kids don’t know how to work,” I’m acknowledging how exhausted he looks.

I suppose I can't speak to that. My experience is overwhelmingly with poor, rural, religious conservative America.

[–] ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

I suppose I can't speak to that. My experience is overwhelmingly with poor, rural, religious conservative America.

My experience is varied. Some of the rural folk, but also the men who think they're above that, and think Trump will cut their taxes. Evangelicals too.

I've even gone off on some religious nut to "repent his following an Antichrist," which spooked him enough to make him leave.

1984 had it fucking right, man. The level of people to engage in doublethink is overwhelming.

Calling them on that outright rarely does anything, unless we can get someone else to follow up with the same until we wear them down. And they blow up every single time.

Alright, but many of them take a perverse pride in poverty, don't work three jobs, and quite explicitly love the elite. Like, the level of idolization of rich folk who share their dogwhistles that goes on is insane.

See, my first instinct is to call those elites they love? Manipulate Liberals. But that takes work and deep cultural access and context to discern, and I rarely have that.

Elite hate isn't a smokescreen for something more nefarious - step back, take in the full view of their position, and it is literally just that - hate for elites. The issue is that the 'elites' they despise are people who make them feel 'lesser' intellectually.

This is why I usually start with a frame of hating Liberals. Out loud. 5-10 minutes of "sounding like Tucker" to get them nodding along. Invite them to learn. Whether they do or don't, make them feel smart for even nodding along... And then switch the frame when we hit a natural pivot point. It doesn't work every time, but they at least walk away respecting me for not being an elitist Liberal.

And the worst part is, many of these people are not stupid, inherently. But they've been raised to see incuriosity about their preconceptions as a virtue. They will simultaneously express what a BADASS REBEL they are by meekly submitting to conservative social norms and what a GOOD UPSTANDING LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN they are for meekly submitting to conservative norms. And if you point it out, they see no contradiction. Which, in practice if not principle, to be fair, I suppose there isn't.

Crystalized as "conservative is the new punk rock" in more recent years. I see that.

This is where I talk about being good neighbors. When my neighbor hurts, it hurts me. And if I can look you in the eye? You're my neighbor. I owe you some basic respect simply for you being here. How can I help, neighbor?

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[–] ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Still digging, not seeing your comments on Mamdani.

But the way you run defense for Biden and Cuomo without actually committing to them? Doesn't leave me hopeful that I can call you a "comrade" in any sense.

Critiquing the Soviet Union? With Nuance? Actually Based. I wanna see what happens when you read William Hinton's (admitted racist) firsthand account of the Chinese Cultural Revolution in his book "FanShen" and his secondhand account of the reversal in "ShenFan".

I use the first as evidence that we can do better when we talk to each other - that "ground game" you maligned in this thread. I use the second to describe the Strong-State's problem of accountability for leadership's incompetence, and the incentive for workers to outright Lie as a survival measure.

There is hope for you yet. But I would love to hear you explain what soaking in a rightwing geography has pushed you to.

And yes, I still want to hear your thoughts on Zohran Mamdani. They're buried. Either I need a new interface that makes this search easier, or a restatement.

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[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 22 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

It's the "Hit Rock Bottom and Turn Your Life Around" narrative. But it's BS - there is no rock bottom. Things can always get worse. There is no miraculous cure. You need to make change happen.

[–] Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 20 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm convinced nothing short of violence will change anything in a meaningful way in the states.

Just look at the French, their government is terrified of it's people.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

I’m convinced nothing short of violence will change anything in a meaningful way in the states.

That may be so, but if so, it's probably best not to strengthen the repressive reactionary entity you're planning on squaring up against.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 14 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

And you should most definitely not discuss any real plans of action on open, public forums like Lemmy. Find a private, closed, and encrypted service that can be trusted and use that.

[–] ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org 11 points 3 weeks ago

This is why I had to laugh so hard about the groups that wanted to organize via reddit. WTF?

[–] dropped_packet@lemmy.zip 6 points 3 weeks ago

Better yet, log the fuck off. Don't have sensitive conversations online. The internet isn't going to save us we have to organize locally.

[–] Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 weeks ago

I'm not in the states, so this is purely hypothetical on my behalf.

[–] Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 weeks ago

Definitely a good point.

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[–] Mustakrakish@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

Are there any peole actually advocating to do nothing? How many accelerationists do you really think there are?

[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago

There's been a lot of positivity about Zohran Mamdani lately. A socialist winning even just a primary in the largest city in America is a big threat. So there's currently a big push to tamp down on that and portray the movement as politically unviable and a handout to the far-right.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

How long have you been on this site? Nearly every day there's someone putting forward the "Aktually, Trump winning is GOOD because now The Left Will Truly Rise As Was Foretold"

[–] Mustakrakish@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Long enough to know that's bullshit. You sure you aren't just browsing a specific instance? I browse the all variant cause I want to see what people are thinking broadly without getting in too much of an echochamber, and I don't think I've seen even one.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

There are people in this very comm, nearly every day, putting forward that idea.

Like, if I go and grab some recent quotes, will I be wasting my time, evoking a "Yes but those are just SOME people, I would actually require (Number of quotes provided+1) to believe you", or have you just genuinely not noticed them?

[–] Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

No. There isn't. This is just an incredibly flimsy strawman argument that fails to conceptualize that there are alternatives to voting when it comes to exerting one's political will.

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[–] Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Holy Strawman Batman!

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Would you like me to quote some folks on this very site?

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