this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] voodooattack@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Software engineer: 🫦

[–] olafurp@lemmy.world 8 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The thing is that it's legit a fraction and d/dx actually explains what's going on under the hood. People interact with it as an operator because it's mostly looking up common derivatives and using the properties.

Take for example ∫f(x) dx to mean "the sum (∫) of supersmall sections of x (dx) multiplied by the value of x at that point ( f(x) ). This is why there's dx at the end of all integrals.

The same way you can say that the slope at x is tiny f(x) divided by tiny x or d*f(x) / dx or more traditionally (d/dx) * f(x).

[–] kogasa@programming.dev 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The other thing is that it's legit not a fraction.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

it's legit a fraction, just the numerator and denominator aren't numbers.

[–] kogasa@programming.dev 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)
[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

try this on -- Yes πŸ‘Ž

It's a fraction of two infinitesimals. Infinitesimals aren't numbers, however, they have their own algebra and can be manipulated algebraically. It so happens that a fraction of two infinitesimals behaves as a derivative.

[–] kogasa@programming.dev 1 points 47 seconds ago

Ok, but no. Infinitesimal-based foundations for calculus aren't standard and if you try to make this work with differential forms you'll get a convoluted mess that is far less elegant than the actual definitions. It's just not founded on actual math.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

1/2 <-- not a number. Two numbers and an operator. But also a number.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

In Comp-Sci, operators mean stuff like >>, *, /, + and so on. But in math, an operator is a (possibly symbollic) function, such as a derivative or matrix.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Youre not wrong, distinctively, but even in mathematics "/" is considered an operator.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_(mathematics)

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

oh huh, neat. Always though of those as "operations."

[–] Mubelotix@jlai.lu 1 points 5 hours ago

We teach kids the derive operator being ' or Β·. Then we switch to that writing which makes sense when you can use it properly enough it behaves like a fraction

[–] bhamlin@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

If not fraction, why fraction shaped?

[–] callyral@pawb.social 23 points 1 day ago

clearly, d/dx simplifies to 1/x

Having studied physics myself I'm sure physicists know what a derivative looks like.

[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Why does using it as a fraction work just fine then? Checkmate, Maths!

[–] kogasa@programming.dev 0 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

It doesn't. Only sometimes it does, because it can be seen as an operator involving a limit of a fraction and sometimes you can commute the limit when the expression is sufficiently regular

[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 1 points 3 hours ago

Added clarifying sentence I speak from a physicists point of view.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I still don't know how I made it through those math curses at uni.

[–] filcuk@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 hours ago

Calling them 'curses' is apt

[–] shapis@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago (5 children)

This very nice Romanian lady that taught me complex plane calculus made sure to emphasize that e^j*theta was just a notation.

Then proceeded to just use it as if it was actually eulers number to the j arg. And I still don’t understand why and under what cases I can’t just assume it’s the actual thing.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

e^π˜ͺΞΈ^ is not just notation. You can graph the entire function e^x+π˜ͺΞΈ^ across the whole complex domain and find that it matches up smoothly with both the version restricted to the real axis (e^x^) and the imaginary axis (e^π˜ͺΞΈ^). The complete version is:

e^x+π˜ͺΞΈ^ := e^x^(cos(ΞΈ) + π˜ͺsin(ΞΈ))

Various proofs of this can be found on wikipeda. Since these proofs just use basic calculus, this means we didn't need to invent any new notation along the way.

[–] sabin@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

It legitimately IS exponentiation. Romanian lady was wrong.

[–] carmo55@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

It is just a definition, but it's the only definition of the complex exponential function which is well behaved and is equal to the real variable function on the real line.

Also, every identity about analytical functions on the real line also holds for the respective complex function (excluding things that require ordering). They should have probably explained it.

[–] shapis@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 hours ago

She did. She spent a whole class on about the fundamental theorem of algebra I believe? I was distracted though.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Let's face it: Calculus notation is a mess. We have three different ways to notate a derivative, and they all suck.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 4 points 2 hours ago

Calculus was the only class I failed in college. It was one of those massive 200 student classes. The teacher had a thick accent and hand writing that was difficult to read. Also, I remember her using phrases like "iff" that at the time I thought was her misspelling something only to later realize it was short hand for "if and only if", so I can't imagine how many other things just blew over my head.

I retook it in a much smaller class and had a much better time.

[–] zea_64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 day ago

I've seen e^{d/dx}

[–] chortle_tortle@mander.xyz 86 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

Mathematicians will in one breath tell you they aren't fractions, then in the next tell you dz/dx = dz/dy * dy/dx

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago

Not very good mathematicians if they tell you they aren't fractions.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

Have you seen a mathematician claim that? Because there's entire algebra they created just so it becomes a fraction.

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[–] benignintervention@lemmy.world 81 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I found math in physics to have this really fun duality of "these are rigorous rules that must be followed" and "if we make a set of edge case assumptions, we can fit the square peg in the round hole"

Also I will always treat the derivative operator as a fraction

[–] bhamlin@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

I always chafed at that.

"Here are these rigid rules you must use and follow."

"How did we get these rules?"

"By ignoring others."

[–] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io 64 points 2 days ago (10 children)

2+2 = 5

…for sufficiently large values of 2

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[–] rudyharrelson@lemmy.radio 66 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Derivatives started making more sense to me after I started learning their practical applications in physics class. d/dx was too abstract when learning it in precalc, but once physics introduced d/dt (change with respect to time t), it made derivative formulas feel more intuitive, like "velocity is the change in position with respect to time, which the derivative of position" and "acceleration is the change in velocity with respect to time, which is the derivative of velocity"

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 34 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Possibly you just had to hear it more than once.

I learned it the other way around since my physics teacher was speedrunning the math sections to get to the fun physics stuff and I really got it after hearing it the second time in math class.

But yeah: it often helps to have practical examples and it doesn't get any more applicable to real life than d/dt.

I always needed practical examples, which is why it was helpful to learn physics alongside calculus my senior year in high school. Knowing where the physics equations came from was easier than just blindly memorizing the formulas.

The specific example of things clicking for me was understanding where the "1/2" came from in distance = 1/2 (acceleration)(time)^2 (the simpler case of initial velocity being 0).

And then later on, complex numbers didn't make any sense to me until phase angles in AC circuits showed me a practical application, and vector calculus didn't make sense to me until I had to actually work out practical applications of Maxwell's equations.

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[–] moobythegoldensock@infosec.pub 22 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It was a fraction in Leibniz’s original notation.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago

And it denotes an operation that gives you that fraction in operational algebra...

Instead of making it clear that d is an operator, not a value, and thus the entire thing becomes an operator, physicists keep claiming that there's no fraction involved. I guess they like confusing people.

[–] justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 day ago

Division is an operator

[–] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 41 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Except you can kinda treat it as a fraction when dealing with differential equations

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