this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2025
32 points (94.4% liked)

Games

21178 readers
291 users here now

Tabletop, DnD, board games, and minecraft. Also Animal Crossing.

Rules

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
jack@hexbear.net
RiotDoll@hexbear.net
32
Where Winds Meet (hexbear.net)
submitted 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) by Munrock@lemmygrad.ml to c/games@hexbear.net
12 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Sooo many videos on YouTube with the title "how is this game free?!"

(AI Art - nano banana)

all 13 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] loaExMachina@hexbear.net 13 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Ah yes, obviously a woman in feudal times attire gasing at a peasant from her window is the best person to explain socialism.

And also, it is good and normal in a socialist society that rice and medecine are nothing but commodities to be bought and sold.

And what a great understanding of capitalism! So true, the order of the commodity-money-commodity is essential, and is actually a thing, it's not like a person selling a commodity implies another having the money to buy it; these C-M-C and M-C-M chains are totally not describing the same society from different points of view!

This "comic" isn't a chain of missing the point of Marxism and then also missing its own point. It is normal that it doesn't mention class struggle, plus value or even address the question of who owns the means of production. It assumes that in both societies the working class is represented by a peasant who owns his field and its product, which isn't the situation of most either under capitalism or under socialism. After having brilliantly explained nothing, it just slaps a benevolent state on top to garanty that "don't worry, the system that is identical to the bad one in every way is good". And then it basically says "the game is free because we're the good guys".

Such an efficient use of water and energy, I'm sure actual artists who put thought and efforts into the type of game you have in mind would be glad to have you as their defendor!

And in case that wasn't clear, I was being sarcastic.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 22 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

So true, the order of the commodity-money-commodity is essential, and is actually a thing, it's not like a person selling a commodity implies another having the money to buy it; these C-M-C and M-C-M chains are totally not describing the same society from different points of view!

They are both chains occurring in the same economy, but there is a difference.

“The path of C-M-C proceeds from the extreme constituted by one commodity, and ends with the extreme constituted by another, which falls out of circulation and into consumption. Consumption, the satisfaction of needs in short use-value, is therefore its final goal. The path of M-C-M, however, proceeds from the extreme of money and finally returns to that same purpose. Its driving and motivating force, its determining purpose, is therefore exchange-value”

  • Karl Marx, Capital Volume 1, Chapter 4.

In other words, C-M-C is performed by the working classes to fulfill their needs whereas M-C-M is performed by the bourgeois to accumulate capital. The second and third panels accurately describe Marx's analysis of C-M-C and M-C-M.

Please note that I'm only commenting on this. I know nothing about the game this post is related to and I'm not commenting on the use of AI.

[–] loaExMachina@hexbear.net 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

In other words, C-M-C is performed by the working classes to fulfill their needs whereas M-C-M is performed by the bourgeois to accumulate capital

So you agree meme So you agree, these chains are representing the same society from two different points of view !

The second and third panels accurately describe Marx's analysis of C-M-C and M-C-M.

Except here, M-C-M is described as occurring "Over the sea", it implies that they represent different systems. The only difference between these two systems is the state that "regulates capital". Implying capital is still a thing. Implying the M-C-M cycle also takes place. In the "good" system, and the first explanation of it was misleading and led nowhere. This is still a system where work is a commodity.

[–] invalidusernamelol@hexbear.net 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

M-C-M and M-C-M' are different. The M' adds a profit into the system.

The C in M-C-M is actually hiding C = (I+L) which is adding the labor value to the input goods to create the commodity.

M' changes this formula by setting C = (I+L+P) where profit is introduced. This profit can only be extracted from living labor, since the input commodity already has reified labor value in it and can't be made to change.

So (I+L~real~) = (I+L~wages~+P)

Even though M-C-M implies equivalent labor value exchange, dealing with this relation by nature will create the ground for M-C-M' to arise since there are those in that value chain who don't experience C-M-C primarily, and they will want to extract value from M-C-M. Marx floated the idea of labor tokens, but even fake money can be abused during exchange to extract value from labor.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Yes, exactly this. C-M-C and M-C-M' (which is what the comic says) are not just the same thing from a different perspective. Also, not every economy where commodity production exists is the same. C-M-C and M-C-M obviously predate capitalism by a long time.

Even though M-C-M implies equivalent labor value exchange, dealing with this relation by nature will create the ground for M-C-M' to arise since there are those in that value chain who don't experience C-M-C primarily, and they will want to extract value from M-C-M.

Yes, hence Marx saying about M-C-M "Its driving and motivating force, its determining purpose, is therefore exchange-value". How to avoid or mitigate this during the socialist transition is obviously one of the biggest debates of the communist movement.

[–] Munrock@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 5 days ago

And what the comic is saying is that the two governments structure their economies around catering for a different one of those two appraoches. You can have M-C-M' and C-M-C occur in the same economy, but the degree to which they each occur is vastly influenced by government and regulation.

[–] Munrock@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

these C-M-C and M-C-M chains are totally not describing the same society from different points of view!

Read theory (not sarcastic).

[–] loaExMachina@hexbear.net 2 points 5 days ago

I did. Did you?

[–] StarkWolf@hexbear.net 12 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I like this comic, but I think it's incredibly misleading. This game does not adhere to those values. From what I've seen, the game looks great, and apparently fun to play, but it seems to operate on an incredibly deceptive and predatory model. It's filled with gacha mechanics with deceptive pricing that starts cheap, but then requires additional payments that get higher and higher until you've spent over $100 USD to get your reward. This game seems designed to trick people into spending all of your money. The game was also apparently designed to be more expensive for international players, things that you can just buy on the Chinese server are now locked behind gacha mechanics with massively inflated prices (3-5x), and reduced availability of earning cosmetics through gameplay, and removal of player trading cosmetics. Plus the game heavily uses AI for the NPCs and even the quest dialogue. I really want to like this game, it looks so cool, but holy shit does it sound predatory. The fact this comic was made with AI is ironic.

[–] Munrock@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 5 days ago

Yeah, in international markets where predatory pricing isn't regulated, the game fucks with gacha mechanics to make money. And in the Chinese market, where its behaviour is regulated, people pay fair prices for the extra content they want. Go figure.

Privately-owned Mainland companies are textbook examples of the difference in how capitalists are allowed to operate in a socialist market compared to a 'free' market. It's the Chinese government's responsibility to protect its people from predatory capitalist behaviour. It's not the Chinese government's responsibility to protect Americans from predatory capitalist behaviour.

As for the AI thing, again, it's not AI itself that's the problem, it's the captitalists controlling it that's the problem. I have zero misgivings about supporting tech companies based in Shenzhen and Hangzhou when the Chinese tech sector is bankrolling research that's making actual progress on fusion energy and actively improving people's lives.

[–] Wheaties@hexbear.net 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Goddam, now I gotta play it.

Edit: Where is this comic from?

[–] Munrock@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 6 days ago

Comic is from AI, idea is from a Marxist experiencing that phenomenon where when you play a video game too much your mind starts giving you dreams where it reframes the day's thoughts and experiences into the game.