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I mean, no shit it will, but good on the Aussie government to fund the study so that it's all already proven. It's fucking impossible to debate some people without linking to studies like you're defending a Goddamned fucking doctoral thesis.
The tobacco lobby's dead body still twitching it seems.
Whoever that user was a while back who was fighting mad at me for suggesting nicotine was harmful-- I'm sure you're mad about this article too.
analysed reviews of evidence from animal studies,
I seriously doubt that, because the bases in e-juice were studied thoroughly in the 50's with no such evidence.
And nicotine has obviously also been studied thoroughly, and the nicotine is not considered a major carcinogen in cigarettes, it's mostly compounds created by the burning of the paper and tobacco that cause cancer that is the actual SMOKE in smoking, which vapes do not have, unless the vape is seriously overheated.
I bet that this study is flawed, if it truly shows indication of cancerous effects, I bet it's because they overheat the e-juice, which has the same effect as burning fat on a frying pan. And with the e-juice taste horribly.
Either that or they've used impure products, and not the pharmaceutical quality products that dominate the industry.
If you are a vaper, make sure the nicotine and base juice are both pharmaceutical quality.
However, the review included case reports from dentists who noticed oral cancer in people who had only vaped and who had never smoked.
This is partially based on self reporting, which is the least reliable form of study there is.
Also I've never heard such warnings from dentists?
Unfortunately with these kinds of studies, we have to consider they can either be honestly flawed, but worse than that the studies can be dishonest to attract funding.
It is quite amusing to me the level of copium that I read in comments whenever negative health impacts of vaping are pointed out.
Have all the flavor additives that they add to these vape juices been studied on the impacts on the lungs since the 50s to support your “doubt”? Did the studies on PG’s effect on the lungs since the 50s include frequency of use and exposure to the lungs that is consistent with daily use vaping we see today?
You’re evaluating results of the study by assuming that the only thing that can cause oral and lung cancers are inhaling smoke. Which is incredibly flawed thinking.
It could be that perhaps…just maybe…that inhaling anything other than clean air on a consistent basis increases someone’s chances of developing cancer. Crazy thought, I know.
Sure it is likely better than smoking. But anyone that deludes themselves into thinking that their pina colada vape they inhale into their lungs multiple times an hour is healthy and can’t possibly cause any negative health issues is uhhh…not very bright.
Have all the flavor additives that they add to these vape juices been studied
Argument from ignorance, they have all been tested to be generally safe, and people that work with them all day long in industries and kitchens are exposed to the vapors too.
I wouldn't count on the health of those employees being respected either.
Well they link the study, but i cant get the link to work. If I were able to actually read their protoctol this research might mean something, but since their source is evidently uncited this is fake news.
I bet it’s because they overheat the e-juice
I remember there being a study years ago where they even went so far as to heat it until the wicking material (cotton iirc) started to burn then claimed vapes contain the chemicals that were created by the combustion (if you let your vape go dry or you hold the button way too long it's disgusting, nobody would vape like that all the time). The cigarette industry has no morals and will fund anyone who will publish their dodgy "research".
That was the formaldehyde study, although the study that found VG broke down into Dihydroxyacetone did the same thing. Their starting wattage was the max recommended for the coil they used, and that coil was a CE4 style cart.
It's not only the cigarette industry it's also the pharmaceutical industry.
When I vaped (I quit 5 years ago) we were generally warned against using cotton, Silica was by far the most popular when I quit smoking and switched to vaping around 15 years ago. Silica was generally considered more safe.
Iirc the formaldehyde study used silica wicks, they just fired the carts for 90 seconds.
Yes I remember such a study too, machine vaping in a room with no people, I can't even begin to imagine the stink it must have caused.
Yet another obviously extremely incompetent or dishonest study. Probably the latter IMO.
I vape and can tell you that degradation of the coil happens even without overheating the element or juice. Which means it's possible for these particles to go into the body.
I vaped for 10 years, if you don't change your coil/wig when it degrades enough to taste bad, you are an idiot.
IDK if you use sub ohm coils or other forms of extreme vaping, but coils don't generally degrade, but they may build up gunk, which can be easily cleaned by burning it off.
But to get the data some studies have shown, you need to REALLY burn the coil, which taste like burned plastic, or like smoking the filter on a cigarette.
It's absolutely awful.
There are many types of vaping, but none of them should make you use overheated coils, unless you make them yourself, and then you are doing it wrong.
Goddam I kind of miss the hobby side of it now. 🙁
The dentist part makes zero sense...PG is antibacterial and antimicrobial, which we have known for decades now. This study like you said is %100 bullshit, and just like the "popcorn" lung study, probably burned the wicks and metals on the vapes with no solution at all.
Someone's got an agenda here.
The popcorn lung thing is because of diacetyl, which creates a buttery flavor.
Nobody uses diacetyl flavoring anymore.
Correct but in that study they were literally burning the wicks and filaments by running the vape dry.
Even when I was vaping like 15+ years ago you couldn't find liquid with diacetyl flavoring used. It was basically non-existent even then.
Yup! 100% correct. The replacement flavors all contain a GRAS (generally recognized as safe for human consumption) replacement chemical that, if overused, tastes like vomit barf… cuz it’s in barf! If used in the correct quantity though, it creates a nice creamy/buttery/smooth flavor. Thank you, CAP Vanilla Custard 2.0 bottle I’ve had for like a decade and should replace!
Both PG and VG are hydrophilic so they can dry out your mouth which can cause dental issues.
That's one of the few legitimate risks of vaping, albeit a low one.
Studies in the 50s also said that asbestos was a good material to insulate your house with.
Were those health studies?
You know the lung problem with asbestos is quite unique, and it may have been unknown back then. If buildings weren't for people, asbestos is very safe regarding fires, and an excellent material in many ways. But it was already in the 60's that we began to ban and remove that shit, exactly because it is harmful to your lungs.
The bases in vaping have been used for instance for asthma inhalers for many many decades and is STILL used for that, and the pharmaceutical industry is pretty heavily regulated. It is also used as stage fog, in fog machines that spew enormous amounts into rooms full of people, with AFAIK no research showing any health problems, for the operators or the musicians or actors that are exposed to it every day.
But for some reason, when it's an e-cig some people suddenly have a knee jerk reaction, and think whatever is inhaled in any way is unhealthy.
Your argument is basically whataboutism, and in that line you could ask yourself, what about the smell of making tea, surely that must be harmful too by your logic. All that tea vapor in the air that you inhale in closed rooms.
Actually it has been shown that people that vape to quit smoking, recover lung functionality faster than any other way of quitting smoking.
So anyone that quit smoking could benefit from using vapes even if they are nicotine free, for a few months.
Also when examined by a doctor, if you are vaping it registers as non smoker when measuring lung capacity.
Well they also have many other ingredients besides the bases that absolutely aren’t tested for inhalation safety. Can’t say one way or the other whether they do because the lack of regulations means no studies are requried.
Not many, mostly food grade flavor. Which are tested to be generally safe.
Food grade testing does not test for inhalation safety is the thing tho
Still in practical use. it is common and always was. So claiming we have no knowledge of it is false. The only case I know of that has shown clear problems was the popcorn lung incident, where the factory had no ventilation, and the workplace was saturated with insane amounts of the butter flavor they made. Despite the atrocious conditions that caused the problem, the flavor was quickly taken out of products even before regulation could kick in. But AFAIK in normal use the flavor is as completely harmless as we can determine.
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung
Yes obviously there is a risk with everything, but the risk is tiny to the amount it is considered negligible.
Extreme use however will always have higher risk. EU has done things to try to prevent extreme vaping, but IDK if it's working.
Here (Denmark) the flavors are banned almost completely, only tobacco flavor and menthol are allowed.
Kind of funny with the menthol, because if there is danger, the menthol expand the capillaries of the lungs, and allow the vapor to go further inside the lungs.
Which is why you should NEVER smoke menthol cigarettes.
Even water is poisonous, if you drink 4 liters of water quickly, you would very likely die. It completely ruins the salt levels of the body, so your kidneys stop working, and you brain will swell so you die.
Nothing is COMPLETELY harmless, and especially nothing can be proven to be completely harmless. because the next test subject can be the one who is allergic, even if you have tested millions. The biggest test is commercialization where way more people use it than is ever tested in research. Completely harmless is an unrealistic requirement.
*for e-cigarettes containing nicotine.
The primary source link in the article is broken, but the second one is two cases of men who consumed 20 and 30 e-cigarettes a day. The third is about nicotine vapes in mice. I don't see anything about non-nicotene vapes.
Did their research for them, article here, paywalled, abstract only (not even citations). They say 3 cases of oral cancer in the abstract, case studies not stats. They also highlight 100x the level of Cotinine (the predominant metabolite of nicotine, so this is shocking I tell you. Shocking, interestingly it's currently being studied as a treatment for depression, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), schizophrenia, Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease.).
The other thing that might be human (or not, only the abstract), likely in vitro, is "Biomarkers also indicate vaping-attributable oxidative stress, epigenetic change and inflammation in oral and respiratory tissue often specified in comparison with smoking.", pretty unsurprising, "often specified in comparison" seems weaselly, and the rest is mouse studies it seems.
Seems pretty nothing burger to me, going off what I have, if there were significant results the abstract would be much stronger.
Ingesting combustible materials into your lungs increases your odds of cancer.
Vaping by definition is not combustion, but yes inhaling any foreign substance isn't good
What's a non-foreign substance that goes into your lungs?