Twitter and Instagram are both bad and the people running them are an important part of that. Leadership is inherently a major part of how things are run and cannot be excluded.
this post was submitted on 20 Apr 2026
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true, even if i feel the suck empire is way more predatory
Which one is that?
instagram facebook whats app and certainly others that arent as well known
The discourse it generates is inherently combative and primed for culture war. Which is true of most social media but for twitter's structure it's also literally nothing else. It's only the follower count, only the quote-reply, only the callout. No other intrinsic value.
If we consider upvote act like then it s no different then Lemmy in term of functionality. I dont feel the follower count has this intrensic value when u can ratio account 1000x time bigger when they said obvious BS. About inherently bad design I would mostly consider the character limit than boil down most conversation to limited expression and explanation
you aren't the only one to have noticed this, it's been a discussion quite a bit here. fediverse Instances are trying to avoid some of the hierarchical forces that the voting structure brings but it requires an active effort and reddit in the end could not resist. if we're only contrasting this to twitter though, no this is leagues different.
the voting system has its problems but it's a consensus machine. Not exactly a 1:1 equivalent of a follower count because we're not always supposed to take in to account who is speaking. the ideal outcome is people voting responsibly and engaging with all comments as impartially as would be natural. fediverse helps by mixing up the default comment sort so your first opinion isn't automatically forming from the already highest upvoted comment. if we were only giving votes based on who we follow, that wouldn't have been an issue to address
i agree it s just ihave an, hard time to consider follower count as a power mechanism the way you describe it. Obviously it hold power but it s not as strong as you suggest imo. To me it it often look like as it was different conversation on different instance wich ppl holding different veiwpoint. And yes on a topic u can have someone with massive follower that hold a view that you deem false or bad but that doesnt mean they are right cause they have more like. At least that s how i feel. just to illustrate my point it would be like one post that hold libertarian view had a lot of upvote and somebody on another instance that s more socialist will answer it/repost it with more upvote. That doesnt necessarly reflect wich is right
Oh. Okay so the value of it is meta, like outside of the interaction visibly happening. You see two people beefing? Their follower counts are irrelevant to each other and most likely to anyone watching regarding who they think is correct. But the fact that the beef is seen is reliant on them having followers. The fact that they encountered each other relied on them having enough mutual followers to cross paths. And the beef will then let them capture a greater audience if they perform their postures adequately. The follower count is the currency in the background, mostly unseen but responsible for what you see in your feed
Maybe that seems similar to that discussion you're referring to but the voting approach here isn't dictating what you see, just kind of more the order you see it in.
Maybe that seems similar to that discussion you’re referring to but the voting approach here isn’t dictating what you see, just kind of more the order you see it in.
I see the point u making but it s kinda the same on twitter. now by default it s not the most liked that u will see first, it s the more likely to please u that u will see first ( u can revert it but the default is this way) I agree with you but it kinda sound like samll details and not really big difference.
But the fact that the beef is seen is reliant on them having followers.
Sometime yes sometime no. Like i said me having a little follower count was abble to ratio easilly account 1000x bigger than mine simply cause they said stupid shit and the point wasnt any of the follower count just what was said.
What s weird is the 2 system are different and with the fediverse and the power of open source anybody can comme with a better solution yet we dont have the one solution that is far better
That's kind of what we're observing, though. You would think that the difference in follower counts was negligible in that interaction but you dunking on another account above you is also part of the intended use, which is probably why you got to ratio them. If you hadn't contributed a dunk-reply it probably wouldn't have gotten the same kind of attention.
I think you should look a little closer here at what happens here at fedi. Our conversation for example is kind of how positive and pattern forming types of long discussions go. We're not going to get retweeted and anybody else who might have been reading probably dropped off a few replies back. But we're still talking and I can tell we're actually reading each other's replies so something is going correct. Not algorithm-explosive but definitely positive. Also your post is at positive score now with lots of thoughtful people in here.
Keep observing, things don't go loud here but being viral obviously kind of sucked on twitter and got co-opted on reddit. So it's obviously not all it's hyped up to be. There's an actual beefing comm to but that's also low-key, the stakes are just the various comm operators banning each other from their own various little islands. It's riveting stuff
i mean just cause i ask a question that s percieve against the value held by the majority i got dislike on stuff that isnt even link to the question or even is supported by the majority view here ( . Not complaining i dont care but i have a good idea of the majority position here on most subject. ) like why ppl should dowvote this https://lemmy.world/post/45838935/23315521 other than elon bad ?
To me at least what your describing isnt inherent to the tool but the usage you do with. I'm able to have a lot of nice conversation with ppl on twitter. Most of the time it only depends on the tone of my answer. Even yeah in multiple case i have answer that s just rage bait or stupid as possible but to me thoses only depend on my restrain and i dont often engage with them or it s for my divertissement.
Do you mean with this post? There have been downvotes but the discussions are positive. Also you have to give it time, things take a while to get exposure.
You're right about that, a lot of the good results we can see here is from good actors behaving well. But that's kind of that nature of it. The best you can hope for is an environment where it's possible for good actors to win, which reddit and twitter are no longer or never were.
If you know the difference between having restraint and not, then it seems like you're already capable of having the online experience you want to have, no? Those skills have great results here
Do you mean with this post? There have been downvotes but the discussions are positive. Also you have to give it time, things take a while to get exposure.
i meant with the one i linked. It s a post that just talk about quitting the zuck empire and lot of ppl use whatsapp
If you know the difference between having restraint and not, then it seems like you’re already capable of having the online experience you want to have, no? Those skills have great results here
I will say it really depends on the subject. My experience here is mostly no less different from reddit tbh. On reddit my most stupid ban was for saying that supporting hamas wich is an terrorist organisation that does crime against humanity was wrong. On lemmy it was for saying, calling your political opponent facist/nazi doesn't give you the right to kill them in the street. But that s the game and im happy to contribute to foss project and the idea of decentralized authority/internet.
But the point of my post wasnt really to try to diss lemmy even with his default on the technicality i think it s the best we have rn. My post was more aimed to know if toward the elen musk hate the twitter hate made sens. And i feel it s mostly elon musk hate. Recently one emulator had a great realeases with lot of feature and the most upvoted post on lemmy about it was how it was bad they annouce it on twitter. And saying just yeah they announce it on the platform with the half a billion of monthly active users and not one with 10 or 100 less than that is the most sensible option wasnt eaylly apreciated.
Okay, yeah I guess it makes sense to announce a product on a platform where there's more people. But the thing I've been trying to get at is people were kind of realizing twitter was bad before Elon showed up. Like, we were all pretty enamored with the social callout for way too long but then again we also thought making our profile pictures black squares was the same thing as creating social change.
I haven't knocked anyone who stays on the nazi app for business, but it really is a dumb way to spend leisure time compared to a smaller place with voting. Or better yet just not being online
nazi app
that s higly dismissive i feel. On wich app do u have the pope your country leader and most of your influencer/video creator ?
but it really is a dumb way to spend leisure time compared to a smaller place with voting
Only based on your algorithm's recommendation and usage i feel. On lemmy in 3~5 min a day i have seen eveything interesting to me so what i do if i have that scrolling need ? go on tiktok ?
Or better yet just not being online
Yeah it s better to take a bicycle rather than a car but that s not a good solution for 99% of the ppl
I mean social network arent bad by default but they all have the default of having the capabilmity of being bad even if u have an unlimited type of control of them. Quite a challenge, but the solution saying just dont use it doesnt really answerr thes question.
If the place is generating money for a nazi, it's a nazi app. I can't help it if the pope (who is only very recently by sad coincidence a voice of reason) thinks it's a good place to make their presence. Most of my people have all left except one and she's kind of a problem anyway so we just take what we can.
Fediverse can last you way longer than 5 minutes of scrolling if you're spacing your activity out and actually interacting. My terminally online ass is way too present and I've got plenty to do. Have you looked at any instances besides lemmy? there's like an actually good piracy comm here. and so many people who will just teach you stuff for nothing. it's great! bunch of them helped me resurrect a dead ROM collection torrent just for the crack of it.
Look, I'm probably the worst person to be taking this from but social media is 100% killing us, no joke. I'm just advocating for the one that doesn't reward you for fighting people or giving MAGA free adcents
wow.
If the place is generating money for a nazi, it’s a nazi app
yeah and if u help a nazi own buisness then u are a nazi like the most prominent nazi figures of our century like berny sander aoc clinton etc. That's a quick fallacy that doesn any true weight irl. The same way 95% of irl ppl wont call elon musk a nazi. A dumb billionaire, technofacist even yeah. But nazi really ?
I can’t help it if the pope (who is only very recently by sad coincidence a voice of reason)
Just by curisity what s the pope have said in the past that wasnt reasonable ? and why just recently he became a voice of reason ? Can u explain it without mentioning American external politics ? If not i feel it s likely you are really opinionated on that subject and not really objective.
Most of my people
I mean i dont necessarly need a place to have my ppl or worse only them, the opposite i prefer. Hate the echochamber effect. Also the interraction except if based on personal relation are often meaningless
Fediverse can last you way longer than 5 minutes of scrolling if you’re spacing your activity out and actually interacting. My terminally online ass is way too present and I’ve got plenty to do. Have you looked at any instances besides lemmy? there’s like an actually good piracy comm here. and so many people who will just teach you stuff for nothing. it’s great! bunch of them helped me resurrect a dead ROM collection torrent just for the crack of it.
Well i have check some of them. Too little trafic and the subject are too much similar and quite often the same as the day before. Diversity of opinions really matter for a social network. Twitter could be even more dogshit bluesky will never surpass it bc of it. It s ideologcailly capture. U have this effect here too, just less prononced and with the federation u can escape it so less an issue.
I’m just advocating for the one that doesn’t reward you for fighting people or giving MAGA free adcents
I really wanted this conv to not derail on a my political opinion are the only morale right to hold all the other are bad. But here we are. At least it renforce my opinion that ppl having issue with twitter is only based on elon musk. Have a good day
Looks like you've been here for nine months. That should have been long enough to get a temperature read on people's sentiments towards establishment groups who work with fascists. I'm really not the guy to raise an eyebrow if that flabbergasted you, this is a very tame take compared to the woke-olympics that actually happen on platform we're talking about.
I mean, if you really want to immerse yourself in diverse and edgy opinions to avoid scary echochambers, 4chan is right over there. Not like anyone here is telling you what to think, we were just talking about sane-alternatives to twitter. As in things that don't incentivise you to fight.
Plz don't quote me on that "my ppl" thing, you know I cringed as soon as I sent that. Everyone knows nobody is "my people"
well, nobody here hold the value i hold so it s great to come here, simply titme to time cause it s quickly tiresome. Also pretty sure 4chan is quite a big echochamber just with more eddgy take.
I guess we talk about evrything regarding that matter. have a good one
Like with all social media - it's as bad as you make it.
I've never had much of an issue with Twitter's recommendation algorithms. I find they do a pretty good job of showing me content I'm actually interested in. I did get an influx of political content during the owner switch, but either they fixed that on their end or it quickly figured out that I'm not interested. I'm getting none anymore. Like literally zero.
Lemmy would be equally unusable without heavy curating and content filters.
yeah sometime the algorithm has weird phase, but im happy with 1/3 being animals and cute stuff rather than the heavy clash right/left that it serve me a lot at one point
Twitter peaked in 2011-2015 but it was never good. It was enjoyable because it was the last era before streaming and binge watching so there was still a split screen experience.
u mean like how ppl talk about the current event like got was at the time ? Yeah social network were really different before the 2015 and apparition of trump
~~No; I'm saying it was the opposite of being political focused like it is now; it peaked than because it was about second screen rather than a political circle jerk.~~
Edit; misread the initial comment above and misinterpreted it.
that was what i was saying ? When i said got it was to reference game of throne that was wild in discussion on social media and a good exemple of how ppl use theml before political discussion became the norm. I agree with what you say, im just not quite understanding what you mean with second screen experience
Oh, sorry! I misunderstood your comment! I reread it and I understand now! :(
ah ah it happen. Take care
Everyone good left and the algorithm shows you a bunch of shit about how male loneliness is because women who don't want to fuck op are allowed outside.
odly specific. Saw a lot of ragebait tweeet on gender issue like that and when we were abble to check where the account were based of it was always comming from third world place where they farm controversial takes for monetary gain. Glad i have none of those now. But yeah the monetization of a social platform and that a "creator" can earn revenue is such a fucking dumb idea. Hate it, and all those consequences or need to implemented in another way.
It is bad because what happened with Elon could happen in the first place.
One person can control it and do what he likes with it, that's bad
so like every social platform except 5 ?
Yes
One person can control it and do what he likes with it, that’s bad
wich is sure wasnt the case before elon bought it. I guess u have the same issue with all non traded company then ? Steam ?
We're noy excluding Elon, because he pushes fashist shit.
all zuck property also did and way before his trump sucking cause they discover it create more engagement. U hadf a study on the matter. It s an interestiong read. Also that pov often doesnt acknowledge wich create the discourse, the user or the social network
For me Mastodon is better than Twitter ever was, you can have real social interactions there, Twitter had too many people shouting for attention. I believe more by the day that smaller social media is better.
that s a good point, but wich also come with his downside. I mean on twitter i can have interraction with multiple ppl on some subject etc here it s less likely. To follow dev and other project i feel twitter work great
I'd say there's an optimum number of people, you're less likely to have meaningful interactions with a very high number of people. Mastodon is a lot closer to that optimum.
on some subject u can't even have a conversation cause u dont enough users. I will never ask tech question on some subject here or for that matter on a lot of subject. Quick exemple if i need to know how to make proton run under wayland of origin games, even with and higher count that normal linux users here im not sure i will get an answer
If we exclude Musk, no, it's not worse than Instagram. Musk is a pretty big deal tho. Now, the Zucc is pretty evil too, so anyway I'd say Instagram and Facebook are fair contenders for worst platform.
Personally I deleted Twitter as soon as the purchase by Elongated Muskrat was confirmed. I deleted Facebook and Instagram more recently (I hesitated longer because I was using it more to communicate with irl acquaintances). I still use WhatsApp, until I can get some people I need to keep in contact with to start using Signal or Telegram (I know I'm not gonna get them on Matrix or xmpp, not worth trying), but it's also owned by the Zucc so it bothers me to keep using it.
Yeah, had the same issue quitting suck empire. Too much ppl use whatsapp
128 character limit meant it was always just going to be bumper sticker style communication, and little else.
Media loves it because it's nothing but proverbial soundbites, completely decontextualized from any greater meaning.
People love it because people love shouting meaningless slogans and quotes and pretending they are the epitome of depth of meaning, belief, and argumentation.
It's stupid because it was designed for stupid people.
yup. And fuck jack dorsey to never wanted to change it. At least now wer have the possibility ............... behind a subscription
No one should use Twitter because of their algorithm alone. All the networks have unhealthy algorithms but Twitter is the most concerning considering Musk’s views and desire to push them on his users.
i mean what is the bad stuff it does ? only concrete evidence wich should be easy to provide since it's the only one that made their recommendation algorithm open source