this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2026
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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 hours ago

Mmmmm, not AS stupid as solar roadways, but them again, what is?

Having said that... How efficient can these panels be just sitting straight up like that? That'll already cut out some of the efficiency which isn't going to be very high to begin with with solar

I mean, the basic idea seems good, no heavy materials will drive daily on top of it, like with the solar roadways, but still... How much could you realistically get out of this?

[–] humorlessrepost@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

SOLAR FREAKIN’ ROADWAYS!

[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 9 hours ago

I see it's time for our yearly Sun-Ways post. Here are the old editions:

https://slrpnk.net/post/14389924

https://lemmy.ca/post/42909568

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

As a practicing solar engineer, I don't like the idea of applying solar panels linearly because they can benefit much more from centralization meaning applying panels to an area, but to be honest I think it's cool that humans are discovering new ways to use these things.

Sunlight is everywhere, so bring on the solarpunk!

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Well yeah, the space in between the rails currently isn't used for anything, might as well put it to use

I'm just wondering how much electricity you realistically can get from these panels as first of all they're straight up, so most sunlight will come at the panels under an angle, driving efficiency down. Then, I'm sure there is a lot of rail, so a lot of potential area but still... Versus the cost and required energy to install them, what would be the ROI, really?

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 hours ago

ROI would take a lonnnnng time, in my view. It's the same idea as installing modules under asphalt roads or even above them. It's not really worth the O&M hassle whatsoever.

The same idea goes for installations like canals. They're linearly too so not the wisest use of modules. But the benefit of modules over water like that is lower rates of evaporation as the panels block the sun. Same is true for water department reservoirs that see lots of algae. The panels block the sun and choke out the algae.

But you're right about the shading. If these panels are installed in higher latitudes, then odds are they might never see the sun directly at certain times of the year. Usually solar designers only recommend flat horizontal mounting for modules in hurricane- or tropical storm-prone regions like near the tropics, or close to the Equator where the Sun shines directly overhead most of the year.

What I COULD see happening is if governments around the world start transitioning railroads to have H-frame structures that suspend feeder lines like what's used in electric trains with pantographs. If you set up those H-frames frequently enough, you have the underlying structure similar to carports and can install modules 4-10 modules wide. THEN you can utilize string inverters every 7-8 H-frames or so, converting the solar DC power into AC which can help feed the train loads as they pass or feed the grid.

Bonus of the above system is that over time, all trains including rail freighters become electric or at least hybrid to make use of the free power generated above them throughout the railway.

Lots of ideas!

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Aren't panels laid in series normally? And if the railway track is electrified then the centralization matter much less.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 8 hours ago

By "in series", do you mean linearly? Depends on context.

For Commercial & Industrial (C&I) applications like rooftops, canopies, façades, canals, floating islands, and the like, panels can be strung in series linearly sure. But because C&I arrays also tend to be arranged in polygons and more often rectangles, this allows the solar designer to string in non-linear ways.

One way to string in these contexts is to prioritize loops where the start and finish of the string are 1 module apart. A lot of RF enthusiasts don't like it when modules are strung this way because conductors arranged in a loop act as an antenna that can send and receive EM waves.

Another way to string is the snake or zigzag method where strings are patterned like this: ,,,,|'''''''|,,,,|'''''''' in rows that are 2-modules wide. The snake method can also be applied to 3-mod, 4-mod, etc. wide rows depending on what stringing method ends up being feasible.

For ground-mount applications at the community-, Distributed Generation- (DG-), and utility-scales, solar stringing is usually done linearly or in loops due to the constraints of the racking, although snake/zigzag can apply in some instances. Ground-mounts can either take the form of fixed-tilt (FT) racking, single-axis trackers (SATs), or dual-axis trackers (DATs).

With FT, the usually racking setup is 2-in-Portrait (2P) where you have 2 rows of modules abutted next to each other facing South. These are usually designed in long rows along a property line, so it's easy to make strings completely linear or half-loops where you turn the string around at the halfway point of what would otherwise be a string line. FTs can also be arranged as 3- or 4-in-Landscape (3L or 4L) which allows for more loops and snakes/zigzags.

With SATs, you're always stringing things linearly.

For DATs, you get the same benefits as C&I, 3Ls, or 4Ls because each DAT is separated from the rest of the array so the mini-array can track the sun. Lines, loops, or snakes/zigzags work, with a preference for loops and snakes/zigzags because DATs are rarely sized large enough to accommodate the entire widths of strings (sometimes 15-30 modules in length).

With railroad-based solar, my bigger concern is that since the modules have to be in a single line that can repeat in rows to the North/South in a typical array, this means all those strings will need to run a long way before being collected at an inverter to turn into AC. That long length adds to voltage drop in the circuit, which is an energy loss on the system. You can get away with this by adding microinverters for every 1 or 2 modules. Microinverters like that add a lot more complexity in terms of Operations and Maintenance (O&M) purely because there are more parts to break down. With string inverters and even central inverters, you have less O&M breakage but the flip side is that those work better with more centralized/rectangular-like arrays.

Doesn't mean it can't be done, but it's certainly more expensive than any other implementation of solar.

One of the benefits I can actually see with using microinverters over string or central inverters is that you break up the "array" of modules so that shading from the trains affects less of the "array" than if everything was collected at the DC level. You can isolate the shade-affected parts better, and promote better energy reduction.

Idk I'm interested to see what comes from this! Definitely a wild idea haha

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I mean my city has a metro line that is electric rail. seems like stations having batteries and solar along with solar on the track would make some sense for the elevated areas.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I've always been an advocate of the canopies above train stations having solar panels to help power the local loads and maybe push power back to the grid.

Solar canopies are used in many other places like parking garages/lots and canals, so the technology is there.

I'm starting to wonder if it's the vibrations from the train that makes these installations risky. Those same vibrations would happen to in-track solar PV like what's shown in OP's article. It's certainly possible to design around, as the EU is showing!

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

yeah I have a hard time believing we lack engineering skills to prevent shaking in structures.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I don't think it's that as much as it is putting modules near trains that have glass prone to micro cracks that can highly accelerate degradation of the panels to the point where they start cannabalizing others.

Still, I think you could probably install modules with polymeric front sheets instead of tempered glass to fix that issue.

No such thing as an impossible problem for engineers! Only impossible costs ;)

[–] bluesheep@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 hours ago

No such thing as an impossible problem for engineers! Only impossible costs ;)

Makes me think of that one quote, "Any idiot can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands".

[–] VibeSurgeon@piefed.social 29 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Out of all places where you could possibly place a solar panel, this seems to me like one of the least practical ones. It's almost all drawbacks

[–] rDrDr@lemmy.world 7 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Even just a foot to the left and to the right, they can install double the number of panels while avoiding most of the downsides.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 4 points 13 hours ago

air currents from trains, especially high speed ones throw rocks and debris everywhere.

[–] Jenseitsjens@lemmy.world 20 points 23 hours ago (6 children)

Three years ago EEVBlog already published a Video why this is a terrible idea: https://youtu.be/7vItnxhWRqw

Im not convinced much has changed since then. As a Swiss citizen it's a bit disappointing that a apparent cash grab like this is possible.

[–] Ilfrin@sh.itjust.works 12 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

And this is why they only put 100m of panels, to test and validate the idea before commiting to any large scale project. As a swiss citizen too, I'm on the contrary quite happy to see those test projects to give a chance to new technologies (or ways to utilize said technologies) before any real investment.

[–] Hiro8811@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

I think the biggest limitations will be security, someone will definitely be trying to steal them

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago

steal them

train damages them

they get dirty

Wildlife infestation

It makes more sense to put them up out of the way angled toward the sun

just set up bleacher style farms along train routes

[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Isn’t this the case with all existing panels?

[–] Hiro8811@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Yeah but you probably need to put them for long distances and you can't really put cameras for hundreds of kilometres instead of let's say the top of a parking lots or an enclosed field

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[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 2 points 17 hours ago

One train even swerved to run over a solar panel that was getting away. /s

[–] markz@suppo.fi 93 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

Really long and thin strips that can't be angled. They can only be serviced while the track is closed and need to survive whatever debris a train might fling at them. Is this really the best way to place them?

Solar freaking railways.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 83 points 1 day ago (14 children)

For the life of me I don’t understand why people are putting them anywhere before every rooftop is covered with them. Roofs are dead space and unlikely to have debris issues (at least compared to a railway).

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 hours ago

Hell parking lots are massive areas of dead space, build them over the damned things, it'll help against the heat island affect and give shade.

[–] JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org 4 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Roofs are actually not that great. Installation is expensive because you are working at height. Roof angles and directions are also not ideal on many houses. Compare it to a simple installation on a field: You just take some corn field, stop growing corn there and can put your panels on some cheap holders and you're good. You can access and service them without the danger of falling from a roof. You can install them on an industrial scale instead of a few square meters on every single roof. You need only one electrical installation.

People love to cry about the loss of agricultural space, but currently we are growing a lot of corn to convert it to fuel or to put it into biogas installations. If you convert those field to solar, you will get more energy from them. And the loss of a big monoculture that is using a lot of pesticides is also great.

[–] livligkinkajou@slrpnk.net 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

You can still grow stuff in them with agrivoltaics. You don't have to lose the productive land below it

[–] JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org 1 points 16 hours ago

And even if you do not: It's better for the environment to not grow corn and just have some grass underneath the solar panels.

[–] eleitl@lemmy.zip 2 points 20 hours ago

You can lay them down and remove them again and also clean them with automation. There are power lines nearby as well as consumers, electric trains.

Installing on roofs is manual labor and needs electricians. Which is why you see so many solar farms by the roadside.

[–] warm@kbin.earth 27 points 1 day ago

It's companies trying to make a quick buck. They tried this with roads too.

Obviously every home should have them first and all newly built homes should be built with solar efficiency in mind.

[–] DrunkenPirate@feddit.org 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Deployment on rails is dirty cheap. Can be highly automated and you have highvolt power line just a few meters away.

If you put solar upon your roof, 2/3 of the costs are labor costs. The material bill encompasses electrics, mounting system, cables, and pv panels that can get reduced on railways as well.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Cheap if you only count the cost of plopping them down and walking away, the train could kick up enough dust and debris that efficiency is impacted significantly more than installing them on a roof would have been, necessitating installing new ones sooner.

[–] DrunkenPirate@feddit.org 22 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It’s all theory. That’s why I think it’s worth a try and learn the facts.

[–] gazter@aussie.zone 1 points 2 hours ago

Don't forget about the inverters.

Low voltage (such as the output from a solar panel) suffers badly from losses over distance. Centralised solar makes up for this by having a large amount of panels close to a central inverter. There is going to be a distance tipping point of cost vs losses, if this is short and you need a lot of inverters, that's going to become a major expense.

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[–] jmill@lemmy.zip 21 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Crazy cheap deployment, but I don't think those panels will stand up to it very well. The vibration is bad enough, but metal fragments are the real threat, I suspect. I've been in a few rail yards, and vehicles that habitually get parked close to rails that are in active service have paint damage from tiny metal chips flying off the rails and wheels. Unless they have some kind of replaceable clear shield, those panels will not just get dirty, they'll get slowly sandblasted till not much light is actually reaching the photovoltaic panel.

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[–] jagermo@feddit.org 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

More info: https://www.groupe-sncf.com/en/innovation/solar-power-between-rails

The company behind it seems to have already tried it a year ago, and the project is in pilot phase until 2028

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