this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2026
194 points (98.0% liked)

Technology

85695 readers
3976 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
top 31 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 61 points 9 hours ago (5 children)

I've also read speculation that selling it at a loss could contribute to antitrust lawsuits against them. Basically if they sell gaming PCs below cost, and the gaming PCs incentivize Steam use over other platforms, there would be an argument that Valve was using their 30% sales cut to sell hardware others can't compete against, to further cement their monopoly. This would be partially countered by the open nature of the device, but not fully since it would still "steer" common users towards steam over other platforms.

This isn't an issue for console makers because there are multiple competing consoles with valid market share.

[–] bigbangdangler@reddthat.com 23 points 6 hours ago

I mostly believe this, but I also believe it isn't a negative for Valve.

The hate towards Valve right now is so fucking weird. Is it perfect? No. Are they actively contributing to projects which can break the M$ coalition? Yes.

Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress, and accept the wins. When Valve actually becomes anticompetitive (big when), then speak up. Otherwise you have bigger fish to fry.

Here's one: Microsoft itself. So tired of hearing shit about Valve from people still booting Windows every day.

[–] Th3D3k0y@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago

Imagine the possibilities of actual changes to the world if aggressively undercutting prices to force newer, less profitable and therefore less rich companies into the ground was actually illegal

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 8 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I don't think it has much merit unless there is a gaming storefront that actively cares about linux though.

Like if I go down to the bottom of my hill and set up a lemonade stand, do I suddenly have a monopoly/anti-trust on lemonade as im the only one selling on the hill?

It's a weird excuse to use. and if a court actually allowed steam machine as evidence for anti-trust. it would open both Xbox and Playstation to the same rulings as they are even more closed off gardens.

[–] kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 7 hours ago

There are plenty of PC manufacturers with plenty of market share and they could absolutely build a similar PC for a similar price.

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

What you read may well be correct, but I wonder how that legal battle would play out. There are other PC manufacturers that can definitely build a competing product. Also, what sets this apart from being another console? It's a custom built machine designed to play games, specifically from Steam. I'm not sure how that's different from an Xbox that has access to GamePass being the only console that can do that. If Steam sold this as the Steam Machine Console, would that change things?

[–] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Presumably PC games are considered their own market, separate enough from console games. It honestly seems murky reasoning to me, but I would imagine valve would be cautious about it since they're currently facing monopoly lawsuits.

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

Completely fair. Some fights aren't worth fighting, especially since there's no guarantee they'll recoup the losses. I buy a few games a year on Steam, almost never at full price. It would take me a very long time to cover any subsidized machine, and I'm surely not the only one.

Honestly, a steam machine was on my radar because for about 10 years now, me and some friends have traveled to Dreamhack Dallas, and packing 5 men and our computer equipment in a big van and driving 13+ hours isn't ideal. Something a bit smaller would be amazing. The price is a bit too rich for me since I do still have a functional computer.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 13 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I commented here quite some back that I did not expect that Valve would subsidize the console and that it would be for this reason, that subsidizing the console means a razor-and-blades business model, and a razor-and-blades model requires a closed system, where one has to purchase additional product specifically from the vendor of the initial product. They were making an open system, where this isn't the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor-and-blades_model

The razor-and-blades business model[1] is a business model in which one article is sold at a low price or even given away in order to increase sales of a complementary good, such as consumable supplies. It is different from loss leader marketing and product sample marketing, which do not depend on complementary products or services. Common examples of the razor-and-blades model include inkjet printers whose ink cartridges are significantly marked up in price, coffee machines that use single-use coffee pods, electric toothbrushes, and video game consoles, which require additional purchases of accessories and software not included in the original package.[1]

Although the concept and the catchphrase "Give 'em the razor; sell 'em the blades" are widely credited to King Camp Gillette, the inventor of the double-edged safety razor, Gillette did not in fact follow this model, nor did it invent the razor-and-blades model, although it did pioneer the production and sale of disposable razor blades.[1][2]

In more recent times, video game consoles have often been sold at a loss while software and accessory sales are highly profitable to the console manufacturer. For this reason, console manufacturers aggressively pursue legal action against carriers of modchips and jailbreaks due to a belief that the resulting possibility of unauthorized or prohibited copying causes a loss in profits. Particularly in the sixth generation era and beyond, Sony and Microsoft, with their PlayStation 2 and Xbox, had high manufacturing costs. As such, the companies sold their consoles at a loss and aimed to make a profit from game sales.[9][10] Nintendo had a different strategy with its GameCube, which was considerably less expensive to produce than its rivals, so it retailed at break-even or higher prices.[11] In the following generation of consoles, both Sony and Microsoft have continued to sell their consoles, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 respectively, at a loss, with the practice continuing with the concurrent eighth and ninth generations of console hardware.[12][13][14]

[–] etchinghillside@reddthat.com 29 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Duh - people are shitty and would abuse it.

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 19 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Buying things at their retail price and using them in a way the manufacturer didn't intend is not shitty, nor abuse.

Most of the business models that enable subsidized pricing for consumer products, on the other hand rely on artificially restricting how people can use those products, which is shitty and abusive.

[–] TheFogan@programming.dev 3 points 7 hours ago

Most of the business models that enable subsidized pricing for consumer products, on the other hand rely on artificially restricting how people can use those products, which is shitty and abusive.

Which they agree with, that's kind of the point though, unfortunately the customer see's the PS5 for 600, and the steam machine for 1000+, and assume steam is the one doing something unethical, when the reality is valve is literally selling a PC. that you are allowed to install windows or a different linux distro on... play games from GOG or whatever on etc... which means valve has to make a bit of profit or at least break even in order not to be bankrupted by people buying a bunch of steam machines and no games.

[–] etchinghillside@reddthat.com -3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Huh – what do you think I said or why I said it?

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I think you said that people who do things like build a cluster of PS3s because they're a lot of compute for the money are shitty, and that they're abusing the fact that Sony priced them low in the hope that people who bought them would also buy games. I disagree with that position.

If you meant something else, perhaps we don't disagree.

[–] BassTurd@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

My first thought was scalpers. But other than that, I agree with you. I think it would be good to limit sales to 1 or 2 units to prevent that and to give people that want to pay games a chance to buy one, then the people that want to cluster them or whatever can get their fix later. If someone wants to buy just one and modify it to do damn near anything, more power to them.

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Not much to abuse. The same way that the subsidizing of consoles doesn't open it up for abuse per se

Valve would just lose money on a lot of sales, as they can't get a guaranteed recoup of the subsidy in the same way that Sony or Nintendo do

[–] First_Thunder@lemmy.zip 10 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I mean sort of, if it was heavily subsidised, people would just buy a bunch of them and make a server farm or something like that

[–] lordnikon@lemmy.world 12 points 9 hours ago

US air force and PS3s anyone

[–] etchinghillside@reddthat.com 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Consoles make an attempt to be a locked ecosystem - which is why they can subsidize it - because they know if you buy it your buying their games for it.

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, that's what I'm saying

[–] etchinghillside@reddthat.com 2 points 7 hours ago

not much to abuse

Then I’m misunderstanding this part. The PS3 compute cluster incident commented below is what came to mind.

But in the current climate I image that if the Steam machine was heavily subsidized that there would be a subset of people abusing that by doing something like purchasing, harvesting, and immediately reselling its parts.

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 6 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

Valve already stated from the beginning that they didn't want to subsidize the cost like a console but they also believe that idea is infeasible which isn't true, especially in the short term.

The whole point of the hardware is to push steam software and increase the Linux marketshare which would encourage other OEMs to offer SteamOS or Linux from factory. No one is buying this to not use it for gaming under a subsidized price because there are much better options for that purpose.

The primary buyer would still be a steam user, meaning they'd make that money back on steam purchases. They could even run a launch promo to offer reduced price with a steam wallet combo. At least give it a month or two before the final price sets in stone.

Even if they had launched at the original $750 earlier this summer with a fat price increase warning, I think the average user would have been more receptive to buying at the full price in the future. It's the getting slapped with a $1k pricetag from the start that's got everyone shell shocked.

[–] potustheplant@feddit.nl 2 points 1 hour ago

Beg to disagree. I'd never pay 750 for a "pc" that performs like ryzen 3600 with an rx 6600 and has no way of bring upgraded (beside replacing ram and ssd). The hardware is outdated from day 1.

[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 hours ago

Steam Doesnt even need to push hardware to increase sales... plenty of idiots like me with a 200 game backlog, and didnt even bother to stress the valve CDN by downloading the gamr even once

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

No one is buying this to not use it for gaming under a subsidized price because there are much better options for that purpose.

If it cost a few hundred dollars less per unit than comparable small form factor PCs, then small businesses probably would. When you only need something that works and don't care about support contracts or having a standardized hardware fleet, anything cheap will do the job.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 13 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (2 children)

Do they at least have a clause in the TOS to not use the Steam Machine to build or use nuclear weapons?

(iTunes had one and that shit will never stop being funny)

[–] pressanykeynow@lemmy.world 2 points 19 minutes ago

Why would anyone buy it then?

[–] zarathustrad@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

What if I connect it to a 3D printer and then download a car with a gun in the trunk.

Think of the children.

[–] popekingjoe@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

Those sound like things children would love.

[–] muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

They could give you steam credits with the purchase essentially the same outcome

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Maybe if they gave percent-off coupons, but otherwise it's definitely not. The big console companies subsidize consoles because they know people are going to buy games for that system, probably on their digital storefront, and thus they're going to earn that subsidy back in the profits from those sales. Even if people buy physical copies, the licensing fees come back to the console manufacturers.

But with Steam credits, that'd just be loss on the other end.