this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2026
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[–] RosaLuxemburgsGhost@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It wasn’t a fluke - it was a benefit from the capitalist overlords to workers in the belly of US imperialism to hedge against workers coming to a class consciousness that might have them taking over ownership of the means of production as they did in the Soviet Union. It was an indirect benefit because of the USSRs existence. That is how scared of communism the ruling capitalist class is…they gave us a little to lose because when we have nothing left to lose, we will start to mobilize as a working class.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 days ago (8 children)

Arguably, the fluke was Germans shitting the bed and failing to have a communist revolution. If Germany went communist instead of fascist in 1930s, then the rest of Europe would've almost certainly followed. The US had a strong isolationist movement at the time, so it likely would've remained a regional power. There was also a strong communist and union movement as a result of the great depression, and with Europe being communist, it would've had a huge amount of international support. So, we basically live in one of the worst possible timelines thanks to the Germans.

[–] RosaLuxemburgsGhost@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

I agree! The reformist social democrats are to blame….and we need to learn from this. Only a revolutionary program will lead the way to capitalism’s demise and the liberation of the people of the world.

Unfortunately, we are seeing the DSA in the US absorbing a lot of discontent and potential revolutionary energy, funneling it into a reformist, populist, electoral program….even running within a capitalist party. The DSA needs to break with the democrats now as a first step of correcting this course. There needs to be a united front of various revolutionary caucuses to bring this political fight to the forefront!

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago

So, we basically live in one of the worst possible timelines thanks to the Germans.

Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!

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[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 30 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

I'd argue it started with FDR not the cold war. FDR did end up helping many Americans, but the concessions given slowed and/or completely stopped many workers movements in the US. Halting further progress amongst socialist or communist parties in the US.

The middle class wouldn't emerge until the late 1940s, but the groundwork was set in the 30s

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 19 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It was the same fear though, there was a really strong working class movement in the US after the great depression, and a lot of communist organizing happening within unions.

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That is why I called them concessions

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 days ago
[–] folaht@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 days ago

RIP left wave USA 1930-1975
RIP right wave China 1980-2015

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[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Middle class is and always was just a third class aristocracy that preside over the stolen labour of the imperial periphery. That includes me and I imagine most Western Lemmy users whether we know that's what's happening or not. Maybe not as bad as the real aristocracy but very far from blameless for the exploitation happening in the world. Not wanting to live off the exploitation of others is not an excuse for it actually happening. We're all culpable.

I'd even go as far as to say there is no true proletariat in the imperial core because of how pervasively the spoils of exploitation is distributed here. The poorest person here still actively lives off the labour of even poorer people in the periphery.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Middle class is and always was just a third-class aristocracy that preside over the stolen labour of the imperial periphery.

Petite Bourgeois. Professional Managerial Class. Mercantile Class. Yeomen/Freeholder. The Third Estate. There's a bunch of different names for it, depending on which socio-economic system you operate under.

We’re all culpable.

To be culpable, you need a certain level of agency. I'm reluctant to hang blame on a cog in the machine, even if that cog gets a marginally nicer standard of living than their peers. That way lays liberalist self-flagellation, rather than proletarian unity. The House Slave has no more say in the running of the plantation than the Field Slave, even if the clothing is nicer and the living quarters less drafty.

I’d even go as far as to say there is no true proletariat in the imperial core because of how pervasively the spoils of exploitation is distributed here.

sound of J. Sakai's Settlers hitting the desk

If you're looking for a "real" proletarian underclass, look no farther than all the prison labor camps our country has perpetuated. You've got homeless folks and debtors picked up by the modern day Press Gangs to do piecework for subsistence wages.

But climb up a rung or two to the modern-day service sector, what's left of blue collar industry, the vocational trades, and the third-string office jobs. You're still going to find debt peonage and a carceral state. People showing up to work with ankle monitors because they're still on probation. People perpetually underwater on the car they need or the college debt they need or the housing note they need to stay out of bankruptcy and homelessness.

The domestic infrastructure is much nicer. When we need health care, there are doctors in the neighborhood who can provide treatment (which we maybe can afford) and schools that provide some professionalized education (which will maybe result in a sustainable employment) and highways/railways to get us where we need to go, and even parks and theaters and other amusement centers for a degree of recreational relief.

But any Roman will tell you that walking distance from the Colosseum didn't make you more or less of a slave. Proletarianization isn't about whether or not you hate your life. It's about whether or not you own your labor.

[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah once you get woke to the chain of misery and inequity that trails your regular existence in a capitalist democracy you see how we're like a little echo of the aristocracy. Gotta fix this state of things somehow so we can actually build the real world for everyone

[–] TiredTiger@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

The empire either needs to start crumbling or capital needs to start hoarding far more resources to itself rather than throwing its scraps to some workers of the imperial core before revolution is possible. We're in a position now where both things are becoming feasible, we just need to make sure the ire of the people is pointed appropriately. Unfortunately, I think the imperial workers embracing fascism is just as likely as a socialist revolution, if not more so.

As much as I would hope most if not all of us socialists would be willing to accept a lower standard of living in exchange for ending imperialism, I don't think the average USian is ready for the gravy train to end. The next few months are going to be very telling, I think.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The middle class has always been systematically crushed under capitalism, which has been a primary project and function of the state. This pressure is felt by the middle class and forms the human basis for fascism.

This is why fascism is an intrinsic part of capitalist social relations. As long as there is a middle class to squeeze, there will be the structural basis to blame someone other than those responsible.

I'd be careful to say that the middle class is being turned into peasants. Its not completely wrong, but its a rhetorical statement (peasant bad, middle class good) rather than a materialist statement based on understanding social forces. I'm unconvinced that by destroying the material basis for the middle class, the capitalists are creating a whole new class, or reproducing older ones. If anything, destroying the middle only brings more attention to the central feature of capitalism that creates two diametrically opposed classes rather than many differing castes or classes, which stabilized previous modes of production. Capitalism creates capitalists and workers. Everything else is unstable or illusory.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 days ago
[–] Etterra@discuss.online 5 points 3 days ago

They're pulling up the ladder behind them and kicking you in the face when you try to climb up the sheer cliff they "already climbed."

[–] minorkeys@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 days ago

It wasn't a fluke, it was a period of power re-distribution forged from the destabilizing affect of a world war. The vote for the average man was also a product of needing men to go to war. They never give us anything unless they absolutely have to. I wish we'd figure that out and get back to making them have to. I'm done with conversation and dialogue that they build labyrinths from. They will never voluntarily give up power, they are psychologically incapable of doing so. There is only one end to this, as it has always been between the cruelly selfish and the rest of the community.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 21 points 3 days ago (3 children)

This is why I advocate for, hear me out, liberal arts. 🤢

Soc 100 or 101, can't remember which, taught this.

[–] GraniteM@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago (3 children)

After not enjoying Applied Calculus, I took Modern Math, AKA Math For English Majors, to complete my math requirement.

It was a great class! Lots of useful, real-world math skills. It didn't use anything much more complicated than simple algebra, but we talked about the traveling salesman problem and ways to fairly split up an estate.

We also talked about election math, and how first past the post is objectively a terrible election system, and how there are several systems readily available that are mathematically more representative of the will of the people. I don't even know if the teacher had a specific political stance, or if she was just mathematically offended by our outdated democratic operating system.

Great class. Wish they would start teaching subjects like that in high school.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

As a STEM grad who spent 2 years undeclared, it sounds like a course even STEM people could use.

I'm so thankful that I sort of accidentally backed into a well rounded education. I cannot say the same for the majority of my STEM colleagues.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 12 points 3 days ago (4 children)

I think especially STEM students should have lib arts requirements.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

100%. Some of the most useful courses that I took were either electives or simply did not count toward my major. Specifically: a logic course, a course about the history of socialism, and a writing course (including research papers)

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[–] spring_cedar_dust@reddthat.com 12 points 3 days ago

Recommend: The Blind Spot: How Oligarchs Dominate Our Democracy - Jeffrey Winters

[–] ChristchurchAsshole@lemmy.ml 14 points 3 days ago (3 children)

There are two classes, the senatorial class and the plebeians. Just like in Rome with the worst psychopaths at the top.

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[–] SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 days ago

Silence, the two braincells of a progressist are working now.

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