Can we just restate this as: "A lot of society's problems could be avoided if parents actually put in effort to parent their children" ?
It's a cycle of madness though, how can they teach you something they've never been taught?
Through easy access to education, societal support, and a safety net.
There are many parents out there who were able to break the cycle of trauma and raise children in positive environments. But almost every single one of them talks about how they had the privilege of the support of friends, therapists, teachers, obs/gyn doctors, whatever, to help break the patterns
There’s a reason “It takes a village to raise a child” is an idea that is prevalent across so many cultures. The concept of the nuclear family was a tool to sell more real estate, and we are seeing the consequences of that societal shift today.
Possibly. How about the reality that people are simply not interacting in person but online. I can't believe this is not the first post.
Seriously go out to a bar, a music festival, volunteer, hell get drunk a few times and loosen up. In the 70, 80, 90 right up till 2000 this was every weekend. Hell it is not some work drone thing. That is an excuse. Work later in life is where you actually might meet some friends and from there have drinks after work and maybe that results in a random meeting with some ladies or men in your life.
School won't teach this. Life skills need practice not exams.
While true, only one of those things you listed don’t require money, and tbh even volunteering is hard when you have to work 2-3 jobs to get by.
Kids and adults these days don’t have 3rd places to just relax and hang out anymore. The internet is arguably the cheapest way to hang out.
Rewrite it for someone who doesn't drink.
You don't drink? Just eat food. I joke a bit but I know many people that go to bars just for the music and social and a coke.
Seriously go out to a bar, a music festival, volunteer, hell get drunk
As a non-drinker I find it interesting that 2 out of these 3 things require the use of a drug. (Yes I know, you can order water at bars, but I doubt that was the point of that statement.)
No amount of reasonable legislation can force parents to teach this stuff. Doing it through schools is infinitely easier.
It also helps provide a social standard that anyone can relate to. Seems weird to demand that parents should be the ones solely responsible to make sure their children are able to socialize properly. That just means they're main reference for socializing is just their parents.
I think it’s not just that. I think part of it is overparenting. Part of these skills can only come from trying to practice these skills
I would like to see people educated how to argue without getting personal. And how to communicate that you aren’t in a mood to argue right now, because you’re angry and wouldn’t listen.
A good start for sure would be to learn to listen and understand, not listen to answer.
- What healthy boundaries look like
- The importance of your own interests/activities/time
- How to survive limerence/infatuation without sacrificing yourself
- How to manage emotional responses without just tanking damage
- How to express anger without getting nasty/toxic
- How to recognise NPD / BPD before getting entangled
Maybe not demonizing bpd. Bpd is treatable and people with bpd already suffer a lot of stigma and psychological pain. They don't act insane just to hurt you or because it brings them pleasure
As a person who has their BPD under control so well that my psychologist doesn't feel fully comfortable diagnosing me with it anymore, seeing stuff about how be need to be avoided still hurts, a lot. I've put in the work, I've never missed an appointment with my current psychologist, I do my best to keep myself stable, and to not hurt others or myself, but I feel like I can never escape this diagnosis. I feel obligated to tell any romantic partners that I have BPD, only for it to be used against me. No matter what I do, I'll always be branded by this, even if I haven't exhibited symptoms for years. I feel like I'll either have to lie to people, or tell them truth and walk on eggshells, afraid that any negative emotion will make them think I'm insane, abusive, or crazy. I just want to live a healthy and happy life.
And mention things like polyamory. I was 40 before realizing that was an option…
This isn't just an issue in terms of romantic relationships, or gender-specific.
We used to all be exposed to the same media and had common points of reference and interest. It was called water cooler discussion. Unless you're into sports, this doesn't really exist any more.
We used to share a more common set of customs. Schools used to have etiquette/finishing classes. Was a lot of it ultimately arbitrary and made up? Of course, but we were all taught the same things, and they became a common language. You knew to take off your hat/glasses when talking to me to show a level of courtesy and respect, and I knew you were showing respect when you did that. This also worked in terms of things like knowing when to adopt a formal tone with others... many people don't have a formal tone any more, let alone know how to use it.
Everyday life thrust us into more social interaction, too. You used to have to go to stores, talk to people. Even public transport and public spaces used to be a social experience before everyone buried themselves in their mobile phones and headphones. Now the majority of people left trying to interact with you in public are weirdos or trying to sell you something, so people assume anyone approaching you in public is a weirdo or trying to sell you something, suddenly it is taboo to even try to strike up a conversation with a stranger.
And modern outlets like social media encourage some of our worst tendencies. Everything escalates into outrage, tribal warfare, makes us really bad at self-moderation and letting things go.
The-way-things-were was never ideal for a minority of people, but the way things are is ideal for no one. I strongly believe even the innovations that are supposed to help a lot of minorities are hurting them to a degree, too. I fit into a couple of those minority categories myself, and have to force myself to go outside, to use manned checkouts, to put away my phone when outside, as while the alternatives may be easier in the short-term, in the long-term they are making me both physically and mentally less-resiliant.
Schools should formally teach a lot of basic life skills these days like budgeting, manners, cooking, hygiene, sex ed — because a lot of parents aren’t doing this anymore.
They used to teach these things in school. Then the boomers axed home economics programs in schools to save a little bit of tax money at the expense of future generations, as they are wont to do.
Relationships are discouraged through school, in favor of competition, so we can be more effectively exploited by the elites (and all hierarchical societies). That is by design. Healthy individuals with good relationships are harder to sell to and to exploit. It's relatively hard to convince someone who is satisfied with their life and image to buy something. It's a lot easier to convince them to instead seek emotional satisfaction through excessive buying (escapism). Each new item (or service) you get can temporarily fill the emotional void and provide a fleeting sense of excitement or comfort.
I think that you're giving them way too much credit. I'd call it a favorable coincidence (for them) but not by design.
That tends to be how things develop when you're talking about systems. There's not a cackling Bad Guy engineering these things, but a system of socioeconomic carrots and sticks that, right now, favor exploitation. Schools and education happen within that incentive structure so its natural that they would take on it's characteristics.
Things I wish they'd teach kids:
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Yoga (one of my niece's school teaches them basic yoga)
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breathing / meditation
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conflict resolution
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critical thinking skills / logic
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relationship skills eg knowing your self-worth, knowing how and when to say no, knowing about your own body and that it's inviolable. If my youngest niece doesn't want to give me a hug goodbye and her mum says "go on give your uncle a hug" I always make a point of saying it's fine, she doesn't have to hug anyone she doesn't want to
I would add to those:
- how money and credit cards work
- how to pay bills and what paying late means
- how credit score companies are predatory but you still have to abide by them for loans.
- what loans are and what signing for a loan means.
- how to do your own laundry
- how to cook healthy meals for yourself and the nutrition of unhealthy foods. Don't say, "eat healthy", but try it out for a few weeks in school.
- how to help your friends without getting sucked in
- how drugs work and what it looks like to spiral out of control. What are the actual side effects of all drugs.
- why might you be self-medicating through lots of drugs and/or extreme video game playing
- how to deal with depression in yourself and others
I would add: teaching that romantic relationships are not the end all and be all of life.
I feel like this is part of the problem, because it creates misogyny, incels and depression when people have their entire self-worth wrapped up in another person liking them. Any person. All of our media pushes this message, especially to young people. I was a serial monogamist all my life until several years ago. I've been more productive and accomplished and more in touch with who I am than I've ever been. I don't have the need fpr another person in my life, and that's how it should be. A partner should be an addition to a person and a life that is already functional. I can't help but notice now how every. single. song, movie, show, book, etc. is not just about romance, but about another person making someone's life worth living. It's fucked up and we need to teach kids that they are enough, by themselves, and that being in a relationship is a choice. It's not mandatory.
In a lot of the California schools I've worked at, they do teach these things. I think they are really great skills that I wish were taught when I was in school.
Unfortunately there's a lot of conservative push back and a movement to get these topics out of school.
This isn't a gen Z issue. In fact, gen Z men behave significantly better. The generation of men before gen Z behaves in a way which got me telling everyone whenever its brought up: men would fuck more if they learnt to behave.
As you are talking a lot about men, I would say we need to talk about toxic masculinity. Which means basically antisocial, competetive, emotion-suppressing, "talk about things instead of feelings" traits.
Which also is a huge thing capitalism feeds. Noone gets admired for having a healthy relationship with their parents or a few very good friends, but for damn shoes or minicomputers with glass, cameras and sensors everywhere, nobody knew they needed a few decades ago.
So capitalism with ads everywhere and consumerism instead of real values is a huge factor.
If you dont have your own TV, you have to share. No own books, you need to go to the library. No own car, you share it with others.
This is so "uncomfortable", while it would make people meet lots of new friends. I always make nice accquaintances in the train.
We just toss people blindly into the mess that is human interaction and relationships and no one knows what to do anymore.
I mean, to be fair, that's kind of always been the case to some extent. Not that it's an excuse or a good thing to have, of course.
It is true that schools don't teach many or any life skills, and it's unfortunate. Schools should also teach budgeting and real day-to-day life stuff but they just don't.
Back in the 50s there was arranged marriages.
I'm guessing you're part of a different culture than the US since it wasn't common here at all, I've never heard of anyone being in an arranged marriage. I do agree with you though, that there needs to be peer and love relationships, communication, and life skills being taught. The issue right now is, the teachers are just trying to teach and survive themselves. It would be an education overhaul in the expanding knowledge direction.
I think people focus way too much on romantic relationships. And many seem to see them as their lazy ticket out of loneliness.
If you want to improve social skills and alleviate loneliness people have to start and grow healthy communities, friendships and family bonds.
Capitalist thinking has reached interpersonal relationships. Instead of seeking community, people focus on how to optimise their dating market strategies and such. That's pretty fucked up.
I think that's also the reason why people lack interpersonal bonds. Investing into communities, friendships, relationships doesn't fit into a world that is focused on linear progress and material gain. Applying this type of thinking (success, optimization, comparison, ...) seems to lead mostly to resentment.
But community is not something you can teach, I think. You can facilitate it by providing opportunities for community building. Like the so called third place and enough time for people to get together casually.
Ultimately it's something we inherit from generations before, though. And we only stray ever further from it. It's in our hands now to do it in our lifes, online and in our neighborhoods etc.
The part about gen Z men has been true for every generation’s men.
Not true. Its never been as bad as 63% not in relationships and 15% having no close friendships. Its clearly an issue that has gotten worse evertime. Why do you think this period of time is known as the loneliness epidemic.
You're getting downvoted because you're calling out half of Lemmy's community with that comment. I agree 100%
A lot of blind courage is also missing. People used to answer to a lot of blind requests in a way that demanded a leap of faith and an effort to establish their own character. It also had a healthy dose of just wait and see. These days people can weasel out of uninformed situations quite a lot. So, we lean to shallow decision models with fewer good intentions accordingly.
We do, that's what socializing at school is for.
It’s what recess is for, but we decided to just keep cutting that down because it’s hard to measure progress when kids aren’t sitting at desks filling in scantron ovals.
Does anyone else remember school as 13 years of being told not to socialize?
most Gen Z men are lack the social and communication skills to even enter a relationship
Interesting choice of words. I'd say it borders misandry.
I don't think that decrease in social skills of the younger generation influenced solely boys.
That being said it's definitely a greater issue for them, since they are expected to initiate and organize almost everything in the initial phase of relationship. Maybe that's what you meant.
What I've seen (in admittably limited experience) is a decrease of skills all over the board combined with lack of patience and will to improve together.
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