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this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2024
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So they've learned absolutely nothing.
Plenty of meetings to beef up security. How about plenty of meetings to understand how your greed has caused this? They sound one logical leap (that they are unwilling to make) away from understanding exactly what the problem is.
They managed to find one and only one CEO quote that reflected anything resembling self-awareness.
All I can think of is a TED talk I saw where the speaker had given some presentation to a bunch of billionaires and had some q&a, and one of them who had built a bunker for themselves asked him how they could prevent their security team from turning on them in the bunker.
The TED talk guy responded "Be kind to them?"
And the Billionaire said "But where does that end?"
I'll try to find it so I can link it.
EDIT: Found it!
Oh god please do.
I’m pretty sure it was the same guy who did the “it could happen here podcast.” Then they were like, can we put shock collars on the security guards. Stuff like that.
Robert Evans? The man is a national treasure.
If you haven't heard his miniseries "Behind the Police" (ironically a four episode special in a much longer running serial podcast called "Behind the Bastards" which is not only about police) I strongly recommend it.
I managed to find what I was thinking of, but it concludes with a totally different line about them than I remembered. I think @neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com is right, and the "where does that end?" quote might be from a segment in a Robert Evans podcast.
Thank you!
Wait! I found it! It was the same guy from the TED talk, but on a different podcast!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nS3-dQen-YM
relevant part at 4:20
also @neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com
You rock!
I don't think it was a ted talk, I'm pretty sure it was a seminar put on specifically by the billionaire class asking this guy how best to navigate societal collapse with their vast amount of resources.
This I believe was one of the exchanges at that event.
What’s incredible to me is that they don’t realize that societal collapse will render their resources more or less worthless. Their options are the same as everyone else’s: get a bug out plan, be ready to abandon all belongings, etc. What are you planning to do to keep your bunkers stocked past the first month? How will you pay your security if your banks are gone or your currency is worthless?
Exactly. These people don't think rationally. They truly believe they'll have a group of sycophants who will do anything they say because they had them all this time before.
When shit hits the fan, you need to be the only one with the keys to the shock collars. You need to basically become Batman.
And it's funny because the answer is build an egalitarian compound where your share of the labor is the funding. That's it. If the guards see it as how they contribute to a shared community then they're not going to turn on their boss
You're right, though I was first introduced to the story from the guy telling it at a TED talk. I phrased it poorly.
That video was freakin amazing and insightful!
You should make this it's own post so more people can spread it
Wow, that was actually an extremely insightful conversation. Thank you for going out of your way to share it!
The guy is called Douglas Rushkoff and he wrote a book on the subject called "Survival of the Richest: Escape fantasies of the Tech Billionaires".
Because CEOs are a symptom.
The problem is our investment economy that focuses only on the stock prices continually going up. It's literally an unsustainable system.
If a CEO puts their personal safety over the investors, the company gets a new CEO.
They're not the one really making the worst decisions, they're the ones who agreed to take a shitton of money to be the face of the company and take all the blame.
CEOs don't get paid for the work they do, they get paid to be the fall guy.
Still absolutely shit people who deserve zero sympathy, but they're not the real problem, just a symptom
Yup, this is the problem right here. Investments are supposed to generate returns, that's the whole point. But Milton Friedman and Jack Welch decided that the sole mission of any company was to increase shareholder value, and the rest of the world rolled with that. So whenever these CEOs point to their Mission and Vision statements, unless they say "Our only priority is delivering returns to our Shareholders", they are lying.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder_value
Meanwhile, we've decided that these corporations are people. Psychopaths who have no moral responsibilities to anyone but their shareholders, but people nonetheless.
Thus our efforts to make social justice a core condition for profits: fuck people over and get a boycott or protests or a label in media as toxic, and lose customers.
It's not going well, as a strategy. It requires an educated populace.
I mean, every economic model out there "assumes rational actors," which I've always taken to mean informed and educated. Too many of the masses are neither.
Exactly. At some point companies need to transition from investment vehicles to institutions
How many times will they be willing to get a new CEO before they make changes? How many times will someone accept promotion into that position? I wouldn't take Brian Thompson's job for any amount of money right now, would you?
I absolutely would take the job. I'd do it for a $1 salary even. I would have the power to make sure claims were approved, lower premiums on users, and call out the inequity of private healthcare from the top of the ivory tower. I'd be fired, but not before I was able to make some good happen.
And, in the long term, that wouldn't even be bad for line go up.
Companies used to invest in their reputation, back when there was that 90% marginal income tax rate.
That's the thing, you wouldn't have the power to do any of that before you were booted out. CEOs do have a lot of power over the board, and the board has power over the company. The net result is that if the CEO pushes too fast or too radically they get removed before any change occurs. As the poster above said, in situations like this the CEO is paid to be the fall guy; the people who wield the actual power are the board members and the large shareholders. The CEO deserves a chunk of the blame for being the face of the organisation and legitimizing it, but killing one, or even a few, off wont significantly change the direction these companies are headed in.
Fair, but in the context of a company being willing to just replace CEOs every time they have to fire one (or especially when someone shows up to fire the CEO for them, Luigi-style), I think there's a small number of cycles they would go through before logic would dictate that they need to conduct business differently.
If you made too much good happen, you wouldn't be fired, you'd be thrown off of a moving train
It's called "dying of an apparent suicide" and the authorities can find no sign of foul play. It's so sad when this sort of thing happens. The company's thoughts and prayers are with his family.
Ah yes, apparent suicide with two random, unrelated gunshot wounds to the back of the head
They'd do it on the daily if it makes them more money...
What do you think a CEO actually does?
They listen to what high level management says is best, and then just does whatever brings the stock price up fastet disregarding everything else.
There's a reason they all get golden parachutes. None of them care past the last board meeting
Sure. They'd run a hundred grandmas a day through a woodchipper, each of them clutching a puppy, if it made them money. However, I am quite sure there isn't a way that replacing your CEO daily, or even often, makes more money. And yes, I understand hyperbole.
I also understand that the impacts on a company of having multiple CEOs shot in a short period of time, or having multiple CEOs come in, try to be decent humans, and fired for it in a short period of time, would have destabilizing impacts throughout any sizable organization. They would run into problems with manpower and staffing, investment dollars, and generally the ability to do business. It would harm morale and reduce efficiency. And probably a bunch of other things I haven't thought of in the 3 minutes I've been typing this.
Yep, we have a word for continual uninhibited growth - it’s called cancer.
I don't always agree with what you post, but you're spot on here.
The "what does this say about society" question bugs the shit out of me. It means that our society is sick and tired of being the only rich nation in the world where getting sick or injured will bankrupt you. If these people were truly concerned about the good of society, they'd quit sucking us dry for every dollar that they can and would advocate for a better system.
It also bugs the shit out of me because how long have children been being murdered in school in a mass shooting epidemic, but now that the rich are being killed that's what makes them ask this? Our society has been in bad shape for a long time
Absolutely. The entire article makes it clear that they don't even have an inkling of what it's like to have to worry about your health or how much money you have.
We live in a society!!
Well they did learn one thing though
They finally learned how it is to be a high schooler, having to live under constant fear of murder. I can't wait to watch C level execs having tondo active shooter drills where they have tonhude under bullet proof blankets.
Mind you, murder is bad, and this murder on this CEO was bad, no matter how you turn it. I don't want to live in a world where murdering eachother is the only conversation left.
Having said that, it is very gratifying to finally see these out of touch assholes having to suffer the same fear as all little kids in America
Great points!
Yes for sure.
Me neither. Let's see if they are ready for any other kind of conversation now. OP makes me think they aren't. Let's not forget this murder happened because of all the other murders.
Same for stealing.
A company steals millions from their employees? Silence.
A guy stealing from Walmart? Police force everywhere.
Yeah, you missed the point
Teo wrongs do not make a right. The murder of this CEO was still murder. This CEO indirectly murdered thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands and caused untold suffering. He was also apparently already on the hook for tax fraud and insider trading IIRC hearing in a news report earlier this week. He was a horrible man who should spend the remainder of his years behind bars.
That, unfortunately, is not the world we live in and I fully understand why he was shot. That doesn't make it right, though. I don't want to live in a world where you can be murdered without judges and juries and due process. We live in a civil society and that means that if you want it done right, everyone deserves a fair trial, even rapists, murderers or criminal CEO's.
Yeah, I know that the US has a big issue with the justice system being damn near bullshit at this point, still doesn't make anarchistic vigilante murdering an "okay" thing.
Do you want to live in a move civil society where everyone is treated equal, or do you prefer to live in a post civil society where it's each for their own and we just murder those that we have a conflict with?
This murder of the CEO, as much as I understand it, is a step in the wrong direction. Maybe, just maybe, this will be the catalyst that will push society in the right direction and the US justice system will be overhauled and made fair for everyone and maybe the government will institute laws that will restrict what companies can do to make it fair for everyone... Doubtful, but maybe. Either way, it still is a step in the wrong direction and I do worry that the US is sliding off into a hellhole it will never be able to dig it self out of. This trump shit will inevitably make it easier for a few to abuse the rest. The few will control the news and narrative, and blame the leftz the immigrants, and at some point more on the left will start fighting instead of talking. Once the scale tips, there is no tipping back. Ask Yugoslavia how well that worked out for them. Oh yeah, millions of deaths later, it no longer exists.
How is that for a kind of conversation?
"Do you want to live in a move civil society where everyone is treated equal, or do you prefer to live in a post civil society where it's each for their own and we just murder those that we have a conflict with?"
Oh, the first one, absolutely.
But we're already living in the second one it's simply obfuscated by an illusion of civility. When the violence is only directed downward, it's somehow legal and civil, but when it's directed upwards, they convince the public that it's wrong.
Some of us disagree with that, and think that mass murderers should be punished even if the law won't do its job.
It's fine, if a bit preachy.
It's not in any way moving the needle on healthcare though.
No I didn't, I'm just not sure I agree.
In which case it would be a net positive, as it would save countless lives.
They literally can't see the light for all their wealth because they're calvinists believing: the greater the wealth, the greater the morality.
That's a bridge too far for them, especially with particularly oligarch friendly policies of the incoming US administration.
That’s what makes it sooo good, they think they just got the keys to the kingdom but forgot the all the residents can bite back at any time.
Elysium
Have been thinking about that movie quite a bit since all this went down, but don't remember it in great detail. Might be worth a rewatch.