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Why establishment Democrats still can’t stomach progressive candidates like Zohran Mamdani
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2025
251 points (99.2% liked)
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Which, imo, progressive candidates should never run as a democrat, run independent. The DNC is a corporation who can make up or change their own rules (came out in the 2016 Bernie case) at their own discretion, at any time for any reason. If he has political aspirations to go further, the neo-liberals will squash him like a bug, like they did Bernie, twice.
Or do like Bernie does. Every Senate campaign I believe he runs as a democrat and after he wins the primary he switches to Independent.
Although now I’m looking it up he may have stayed democrat this last round since he was given the chairman of the labor committee in the senate
Nope, even “when he served as chairman of committees like the Veterans' Affairs Committee and the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, he did so while being an independent who caucused with the Democrats.” (Google ai answer)
Yes, he usually runs as a democrat and then once he wins, switches to independent, which makes sense to, I guess, abide by DNC rules and such. Won in 2024 senate race running as a dem. Currently, he is listed on Ballot Pedia as an independent, so once again, he switched it.
Totally I looked it up, Bernie is pretty bad azz… I wish he was younger….
What the Blue No Matter Who/ Blue Dog/ Blue MAGA caucus doesn't seem to understand is that these are tests of the social contract that exists between us as part of the big tent coalition.
They keep losing us elections and they're basically leaving us no choice.
Dems also dont understand that they dont have enough votes to win with just centrist votes.
"You helped us lose to a fascist twice, do it 2 or 3 more times & I may be forced to reconsider my choice"
What "social contract"? I don't vote to punish or reward politicians, I vote whichever way is going to make life for me and other Americans suck less. Both popular options suck, but one sucks way more. No third party stands a chance until one of the main parties fractures, or we get RCV. My money's on a Republican fracture personally, and the sooner they start losing the sooner that'll happen.
Blue No Matter Who is just shorthand for those facts. Once the alternative isn't worse, it can be discarded as a strategy. It is a strategy, not a "social contract".
You’re part of the problem, you keep voting for the same dipshit the who got us here.
The dipshits that got us here are the Republican party and the Heritage Foundation. Not to mention all the "leftists" who never show up to Democratic primaries but complain endlessly about the candidate, then go on to vote third party or not vote at all. Bad Democratic candidates are a symptom of the dipshits responsible.
You're the problem. I'm trying to do damage control to limit the scope of the problem. Did you have a proposed alternative vote that would have come closer to working out? Because not voting for one of the two major parties is counterproductive until one of them collapses. I don't respect the electoral opinions of people who don't understand elections.
I don’t support the electoral opinions who keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting change.
Keep casting your votes for pathetic, loser, corporate democrats even though they don’t give a shit about you and even though they keep lying to you again and again.
That’s what I just heard you say.
But I would prefer we blame the shitty politicians instead of each other.
Question: do you live in a red state or a red county or something?
Like voting third party, or not voting? That has the same result every time, why keep doing it?
The most perfect candidate in the world is totally worthless in an election they have no chance of winning, and worse than worthless when supporting them splits the votes which oppose fascism, allowing it to take hold.
Lesser evil with a chance of winning is better than perfect with no chance, every single time.
The longer you treat Democrats as traitorous allies, the longer it'll take you to understand. They are not allies. I don't vote for them because I agree with them, I vote for them because the only alternative with any chance of winning is worse.
They are not your friends. They are temporarily useful enemies.
And who nominated those shitty politicians in their primaries? We the people. If the politicians don't represent your demographic, then there are exactly two explanations:
Voting third party is stupid, not voting is stupid. Voting in primaries is smart, encouraging others to vote in primaries is smart, educating people so that more of the voters in primaries agree with you is smart. Do smart things, not stupid things.
I do. So do many others. Third party might be slightly less stupid in a safe blue state, but it's mind-bogglingly stupid as a general strategy.
If I lived in a red state in a red county and I knew the candidate was going to lose I would probably be more likely to vote third party….
I live in a blue state in a blue county where there is basically zero chance for a red candidate to win our districts… I can leave troublesome candidates blank.
The only time I would even consider voting for a candidate I didn’t like would be if our district has a reputation for being close to 50 50, and even then it would be a tough choice for me….
For national senate seats I do use different judgement calls but I really despise voting for neoliberals and centrists…
Thankfully our state has mail in voting for both primaries and the national election, so it’s super easy to vote in primaries….
I hear you it’s a tough call to make, but one thing I suggest we do is stop blaming each other…
I did it and you did it too, and it’s really dumb….
The blame lies with the shitty ass democrat party…
And fyi I don’t generally downvote folks I’m chatting with here fyi so, I do try to listen to folks I’m ranting and rave with and at
The contract is that because we share a party we share control of that party and it's direction.
If that contract is breached, well we really don't have a party.
The cudgel of "it rubs the centrist on the skin or it gets the trump again" only works if centrism can win elections, and that's entirely the fucking point: it can't. And when centrists occupy some of the most progressive districts to them cross the fucking line and vote with Republicans, what exactly is the fucking point?
Centrists do own the Democratic party, but if their business isn't being responsible to the people in the big tent, they've violated the peace treaty the tent represents. If they're going to demand that politics need to be done their way to win elections, they actually have to win elections. Otherwise there is no coalition worth having with having with them.
Internal to the Democratic party is a social contract between factions, and one of the parties in that faction seems to think they can violate that contract with impunity.
Uh, I don't share the Democratic party. Sure, I vote any time I can to direct them to suck a bit less, but it's not because I think they represent me. The treaty is that whoever votes in their primaries decides who their candidate is. If you're not voting in their primaries, you have no control.
If the majority of the people really wanted a progressive candidate, they could get one by showing up in force to the primaries. Primary voting participation is like 15%, it would be easy to sweep that if people actually showed up. Get every leftist to show up to the primaries. If they still lose, that's just democracy.
Stop treating the DNC as a traitorous ally. They are not an ally. They are a tool used to effect future material conditions. The tent represents a collection of demographics with a common enemy that they pool their votes to defeat. Leaving the tent only makes that enemy harder to defeat.
The primaries that the party successfully argued in court that they don't have to run honestly.
The primaries they didn't even bother to have last year.
Get outta here with that "pRiMaRy" shit. Democrats don't do trustworthy primaries.
You just got done saying you vote blue no matter who a few comments ago.
Frequently, answers are found by reading the entirety of a passage.
We dont have platforms any more so how can you "vote whichever way is going to make life for me and other Americans suck less".
And hows that working out for you?
Well, Biden was better than Trump before him, so that was nice actually. Didn't quite have enough this time, and now the military is deployed in blue cities. I'd say it could've sucked a lot less.
Did you have a proposed alternative vote that would have come closer to working out?
That's what honest primaries used to be for.
I agree, but NY is already RCV, which opens the door to better options
Agreed, that doesn't generalize nationwide though