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Tesla owners learning about the limits of lithium ion battery physics the hard way (www.fox32chicago.com)

submitted 10 months ago by nasezero@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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"Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent," said Tyler Beard, who has been trying to recharge his Tesla at an Oak Brook Tesla supercharging station since Sunday afternoon. "And this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday."

"Like any new technology, there’s a learning curve for people," said Mark Bilek of the Chicago Auto Trade Association.

Lmao, no my dudes, it's pretty well understood that you need to keep the battery warm enough to be able to charge. This is not some fucking unexplored field of science!

I'm absolutely cackling at the radio silence from Tesla + dozens of Tesla owners just sitting around cluelessly wondering why their car hasn't charged at all in over 3 hours. Maybe another 3 hours will do it, keep trying stalin-approval

Also, a cursory Google search leads me to believe that the Model 3 has no dedicated battery warmer that could be used for this very situation, but instead some system that "runs the motor inefficiently to heat up the battery". Doesn't sound like this can work when the car is stationary, I guess tesla engineers forgot about the Midwest when cutting parts to save on production costs michael-laugh

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[-] Yllych@hexbear.net 74 points 10 months ago

Another thing I hate Tesla for is the fact that their shitty cars poison the well for basically any kind of electrified transport, by way of their greenwashing these bazingamobiles.

Trying to sell the public on electric transport that's actually scaled properly to work, like buses and trains is hard enough without connections to tesla

[-] bam13302@ttrpg.network 26 points 10 months ago

First you would need to sell Americans on public transportation in general, which is a far bigger issue

[-] oktherebuddy@hexbear.net 11 points 10 months ago

That isn't a dependency, it's a feedback loop. People take public transit when it is more or similarly convenient to taking a car. Getting everyone to agree to start using some objectively shitty service that takes 1.5 hours to go somewhere they can go in 20 minutes in their car will never happen. So no, it is not a bigger issue.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago

There are a lot more brainworms around public transit than convenience

[-] oktherebuddy@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago

material conditions, comrade

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago

Those are the main driver of people's choices but far from the only. People make decisions that run counter to their material interests all the time.

[-] Skeleton_Erisma@hexbear.net 10 points 10 months ago

To which I say good luck.

Burgers are very selective with their narrative. Like, they don't believe covid is real, but they'll enthusiastically use it or other viruses as an excuse to shoot down public transit

[-] wopazoo@hexbear.net 10 points 10 months ago

Like, they don't believe covid is real, but they'll enthusiastically use it or other viruses as an excuse to shoot down public transit

They don't believe in truth or consistency. Facts are just a weapon to be used against their enemies. COVID can be real one moment to be used as a cudgel against public transit, and it can be fake in the next moment when that becomes more convenient. Feelings don't care about facts.

[-] macerated_baby_presidents@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

honestly nobody knows or cares how public transport works. every once in a while car guys blow their minds by learning that normal city buses have turbos. doesn't matter as long as it conveniently gets you from A to B

[-] wopazoo@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Trying to sell the public on electric transport that's actually scaled properly to work, like buses and trains is hard enough without connections to tesla

right-wing media is already running articles on how electric buses are fiery death traps ready to burst into flames at any moment.

what they ignore is that diesel bus fires happen all the time (mostly when going wide-open throttle up a steep hill, like electric bus fires), but they never get reported on by the news

[-] kot@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago

Trying to sell the public on electric transport that's actually scaled properly to work, like buses and trains is hard enough without connections to tesla

The technology for those has already existed for a pretty long time and they work just fine though. It's just the bourgeois governments don't want to spend any money on it because car companies lobby against public transport.

[-] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 62 points 10 months ago

Lmao. Yet another case of "If this had happened in China it would be deemed a failure of the Chinese system" hours

[-] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 53 points 10 months ago

BUILD TRAINS monke-rage

[-] Skeleton_Erisma@hexbear.net 17 points 10 months ago

smuglord but have you considered cars are freedom and trains are control?

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 39 points 10 months ago

Man.

A lot of folks i know in northern climes have a plug in battery heater, they run a power cord from an outlet in the house or whatever, keeps the battery from freezing solid. Figures Tesla wouldn't have something like that.

[-] KoboldKomrade@hexbear.net 32 points 10 months ago

I have a chevy volt. Its a (weird) hybrid so slightly different (I think it runs the engine, but it CAN run it standing still. When it needs heat, plugged in it hums differently then unplugged.) Even though its like 8 years old at this point, even it knows to run to keep itself warm. It 100% has to be either cheapness, lazy design, or unwillingness to cut range in winter. But I mean... I can still drive just fine and it was near 0F last night lol.

[-] Sinistar@hexbear.net 22 points 10 months ago

I've got a Volt too, great car, built like a tank in that the battery sacrifices max range for lifespan.

[-] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ive owned mine for 5 years now and have done zero maintenance on it aside from 2 oil changes and replacing one battery cell at a cost of $2k. I’ve driven it 50k miles in that time. I just took it in to get looked at because it’s been a while, they topped off the fluids and said it’s in great shape. Amazing car. Uncomfortable as hell but great car.

[-] CanYouFeelItMrKrabs@hexbear.net 17 points 10 months ago

It's a shame the Volt didn't catch on more, it seems pretty neat

[-] Bnova@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago

I had a Prius prime, which is the Toyota equivalent. I loved that car electric for local and hybrid for distance is awesome.

[-] wopazoo@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago

It 100% has to be either cheapness, lazy design, or unwillingness to cut range in winter.

modern cars are designed to fail. modern design uses computer simulations that allow you to build things to a spec such as "fail after 8 years". it's all intentional.

Are OLD CARS more RELIABLE? Planned obsolescence and SUSTAINABILITY in the AUTO INDUSTRY

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[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 19 points 10 months ago

i remember you used to go to a holiday inn or whatever and the parking row by the building would have posts with outlets for that. Stopped seeing them eventually but did have a couple winters where somebody's car wouldn't start because of the cold, even with a garage.

[-] KiraChats@hexbear.net 38 points 10 months ago

yet another Tesla owner L

[-] Magician@hexbear.net 40 points 10 months ago

The Model L

[-] InevitableSwing@hexbear.net 35 points 10 months ago

Elon has a plan. He wants to monumentally speed up global warming.

[-] Philosoraptor@hexbear.net 32 points 10 months ago

This is what you get when your entire engineering team has never left California or imagined a place that isn't California.

[-] Hello_Kitty_enjoyer@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago

I was getting tired of eurocentrism at least now there's calicentrism

[-] cricbuzz@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago

ehhhh i hate when engineers get blamed for this kinda thing tbh. i know plenty of engineers and i'm sure even the tesla ones told executives this would be a problem and were probably hand-waved away due to costs

[-] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 30 points 10 months ago

I'm so glad that I'm too broke to waste money on a Tesla.

[-] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 18 points 10 months ago

iirc Norway and Oslo specifically have very high EV adoption rates, so I would chalk this one up to Tesla ecosystem being badly designed

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 15 points 10 months ago

Quite literally why I call people dumbasses to their face if I see them driving teslas up here.

[-] wopazoo@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Unreliability of infrastructure during extreme cold weather is not exclusive to electric cars.

Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago

Sounds like a skill issue for those commie-danians

[-] Bnova@hexbear.net 14 points 10 months ago

I rented a Polestar recently on a trip to California. I parked it at my in-laws place at 13% battery. The temperature that night was around 40°F, when I got into the car the following morning I was at 9% battery losing 4% over night in mild-cold weather is insane. I have no clue how electric vehicles will run in cold climates.

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[-] oktherebuddy@hexbear.net 12 points 10 months ago

My boomer kkkanada relatives have been voicing this criticism of EVs for as long as I can remember, sad day when they are proven right

[-] space_comrade@hexbear.net 16 points 10 months ago

To be fair it was clear to most people outside of neolib techbro circles that electric cars are really impractical for the average person.

[-] macerated_baby_presidents@hexbear.net 11 points 10 months ago

Lmao, no my dudes, it's pretty well understood that you need to keep the battery warm enough to be able to charge. This is not some fucking unexplored field of science!

Anybody who owns a phone knows that charging a lipo heats it up; it's natural - and mostly correct! - to assume that charging when cold works. What these people don't know is that charging far below freezing damages the battery, which is why the firmware presumably is disabling charging altogether in such cold temperatures. If your EV is at 30% in the extreme cold, use some battery energy to warm it up a little (e.g. by driving) and then charge. If it's at 0%, you're stuck until you get it warm somehow.

instead some system that "runs the motor inefficiently to heat up the battery". Doesn't sound like this can work when the car is stationary

why not? isn't an electric motor just a big resistor? Give it less than the inrush current, so there's power spent but not enough to move. Obviously it'd be better to have the waste heat generated at the battery instead of at the motor, but discharge heating is better than nothing and battery resistance looks similar to phase resistance so it won't be too lopsided.

Teslas are some of the worst EVs out there but my ICE is also eating shit right now without a block heater (which are usually aftermarket and require an outlet to plug into). The engineering omission was not including a battery heater with external power - perhaps they assumed that if you were able to drive to a charging station you'd have enough power to warm the battery.

[-] Self_Sealing_Stem_Bolt@hexbear.net 9 points 10 months ago

Weird, I just saw a propaganda article for EVs in canada during this cold snap, insisting that only the efficiency goes down a bit

[-] tactical_trans_karen@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago

LMAO bazinga Americans racking up another L.

[-] Skeleton_Erisma@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

"NO ICE" to suck in ice real quick eh?

[-] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago

How do they not know? They bought Teslas, how do they not know!?

[-] pumpchilienthusiast@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago

Need sicko-train emoji

[-] DyingOfDeBordom@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago

Why not make the charging stations semi indoors or something so that the cars can be externally heated, seems like badly designed infrastructure

[-] pumpchilienthusiast@hexbear.net 8 points 10 months ago

Why not ban cars tho

[-] frogbellyratbone_@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago

don't all teslas have a battery heating feature for shit like this? i'm pretty sure they do and these mindless consumers can't even be bothered to read a 80 page book on their $40k+ car

also can't believe i'm quasi defending teslas here. please view it more as point of clarification before i puke more

[-] nasezero@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago

I don't disagree that there's a lot of onus on Tesla owners to understand how their bazginamobiles function in the climate they live in, but there's definitely also a failure on Tesla's part for not having push notifications.

Having your phone ping you with a link to the car manual's relevant section on battery conditioning or w/e seems like it would be trivial for a company that removed Disney+ after Musk had a temper tantrum. Teslas probably even have external temp sensors that could do this automatically rather than Tesla having to do it manually based on regions' weather forecasts.