this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2025
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[–] General_Effort@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

This looks more like sexism dressed up as science, rather than science.

If the men really felt that they were in the body of a woman, then I would expect the overwhelming emotion to be gender dysphoria.

If not, then they answered whatever they felt they should. That's a well-known problem in such studies (eg Social Desirability Bias). Maybe they answered what they felt the interviewer wanted to hear. Or maybe they just regurgitated sexist stereotypes. Imagine putting the avatar in a dirty kitchen and asking: Don't you feel an overwhelming desire to clean?

But suppose that this is a good "empathy building" exercise. What is the take-away? Say, some years down the road, these men are hiring employees. There are qualified female candidates, but the job requires working at night, or maybe being alone with male clients. Hmm. Benevolent sexism is still sexism.

[–] sol6_vi@lemmy.makearmy.io 5 points 13 hours ago

Welcome. Welcome to our study. You have either chosen or been chosen...

[–] Pippipartner@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I looked at the comments.

I knew it was a mistake, I did it anyways.

It sure was a mistake.

[–] starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I would look at the study, while the problem is 100% real and anyone with any empathy should realize is real, to say the study supports it is a bit far fetched. Looking at the scenarios they created and the avatars, it's all a bit uncanny valley and backrooms sort of feeling. Sort of ps2 graphics but in vr.

E: I think the conclusion puts it best, vr is a good tool for showing people what a lot of women have to deal with, and how terrible it can feel. It's like rp for people who have trouble empathizing or don't get why it matters.

[–] Makhno@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I just had surgery and have grown a new appreciation for the fear women can feel. Im a taller dude and lifted 4-5 days a week, so im fairly bigger than other guys my size, but since my surgery im so fucking fragile and have no ability to defend myself. I live in a city and walking around at night has become a whole new experience. Before I never worried much being out alone, but now I have a constant anxiety, a fear that someone will come and overpower me. Hurt me.

I know its not entirely the same, but the fear of others in this capacity definitely makes me much more empathetic towards what I used to view as overreaction.

Ladies, I apologize.

[–] Wren@lemmy.today 8 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Lady here.

You don't have to be sorry, just stay safe and keep trying to be a good person. I wish you well on your recovery.

edit: It's not so much about being overpowered, though that is a thing, as the mental exhaustion from having to deal with so many people who think you owe them something. The book "Verbal Judo" helped me way more than self-defense classes, I recommend it, it's the art of de-escalation by being snarky and delightful.

[–] placebo@lemmy.zip 46 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Regarding fear, our results show that this emotion is higher in the catcalling situation, however, there is no significant difference with the control condition. This suggests that experiencing an urban underground environment at night from a woman’s perspective is inherently fear-inducing, independent of explicit harassment.

Does it, though? It would be better if they had a control group where participants used a male avatar. My understanding is that both groups used female avatars:

In the experimental condition, the avatars used typical Italian catcalling expressions (documented in newspaper articles and sociological research on the topic of verbal street harassment), while in the control group (condition), the avatars posed general questions to the participants.

I have no doubt that it can be scary for a woman to be in this setting in real life. However, I'd like to see scientific proof that this feeling can be specifically induced in men who are controlling female characters in VR. Right now, it's more of an assumption, isn't it? As a gamer, I know that the location itself can be scary, that sound design (music, ambient sounds, voice acting) can be frightening, and that trying VR for the first time can also be uncomfortable.

[–] eronth@lemmy.world 3 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I'd also be worried about the reaction being tainted by the target not being your desire. Like, I'd imagine a straight dude will be more uncomfortable being catcalled by a dude than a lady (regardless of whether their avatar is a woman or not). Obviously the study is a bit more robust than that, but it's still an inherent issue hard to circumvent just with VR.

[–] Soup@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago

What does that have to do with anything? The only reason I’d be more comfortable with a woman cat-calling me is because I’m significantly bigger than most women and my position in society lends me a lot more power and confidence. Even if a dude did it I’d be way better off than if I were a woman so I can brush it off more easily. I’m also not attracted to every woman I see so what does it matter?

Besides, turn that around and ask yourself if you really think that a straight woman being cat-called by a man makes them feel any better. In fact, maybe the inherent lack of attraction found between a male participant and a male cat-caller actually makes the point that much stronger. “I’m not attracted to this person and yet they continue to pressure me and that makes me feel all the more unsafe”.

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[–] Bazell@lemmy.zip 4 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (2 children)

Any normal person can experience some level of fear in this situation, not just women. I would also experience some level of anxiety even with a fully loaded handgun in pocket.

Catcalling is uncomfortable in many situations, so these are not exactly connected between each other except for both being some negative experience in most of cases.

[–] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 4 points 21 hours ago (2 children)
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[–] Soup@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago

Right, but as a 6’-5” dude I feel a lot less anxiety. When I feel any anxiety I can ignore it and remind myself that the shit I’m conjuring up just doesn’t actually happen here. Meanwhile, my friend has been followed home multiple times and all she did was be vaguely kind to a man. One time she didn’t even ever talk to the dude, he just saw her at the bar and decided that was his night to be a gargantuan piece of filth!

No one is actually going to mug me here but I know many people who constantly need to be on edge around men, even people who are supposed to be their friends. It’s not about feeling anxious, it’s about understanding that women experience all the same anxieties and also have to deal with a bunch of other, far more real, threats all the while being often physically smaller/weaker.

You’re not wrong that both genders experience anxiety but you have just entirely missed the point. When the women in your life deal with this shit I hope you approach the situation with more compassion than whatever drove you to writing that stupid comment.

On another note, carrying a weapon actually makes you more anxious. You’d think it would give a feeling of safety but it really doesn’t, so you best be damn sure you have a real good reason to be packing heat.

[–] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 80 points 1 day ago (10 children)

I wish they had tested all 8 scenarios: Male/female participant, male/female body, catcalled/not catcalled.

Because even as a man I don't feel comfortable being alone at a subway station at night. Nor can I imagine would I then enjoy being catcalled.

I wonder how much your VR body seen in a mirror affects this. My gut says not a lot but more data would've been great.

Now, if your own VR body does affect your reaction there must be bodies which maximize/minimize reactions. That'd be fun to test. You don't even have to limit yourself to human bodies, what if you're, say, a dinosaur (with body height still being the same)?

[–] anamethatisnt@sopuli.xyz 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

While my first reaction was the same - "how would they react in male avatars?", that doesn't seem to be the point at all of this study but rather the potential of VR to change the subjects behaviour in real life by helping empathy along.

Introduction
[...]
Peck et al.13 found that White participants, after embodying a Black avatar, showed a reduction in implicit racial bias.
This principle has been extended to the context of gender-based violence.
Seinfeld et al.14 had male offenders embody a female victim of domestic violence, finding that the VR experience significantly improved their ability to recognize fear in female facial expressions—a deficit common in violent offenders15.
Similarly, other studies using 360° videos and immersive scenarios of sexual harassment have reported marked increases in empathy and changes in violent attitudes among participants16.
[...]
These findings collectively affirm the potential of VR as a rehabilitative tool for enhancing emotional understanding and mitigating harmful behaviors.

Building on this foundation, the present study utilizes immersive VR to provide male participants with a firsthand experience of catcalling.
While previous research has often focused on overt violence, our goal is to investigate the affective response to a more commonplace form of street harassment. We hypothesize that this embodied experience will elicit morally salient emotions like disgust and anger19,20,21.
By inducing this moral discomfort, the intervention aims to foster self-awareness and encourage a reconsideration of the behavior’s impact22, serving as a potential strategy to promote behavioral change.

That's fair, I only really glossed over the study.

But still, have they actually collected data to support illiciting these emotions works as a "potential strategy to promote behavioral change"? In the study, I haven't found anything like a pre and post experiment survey showing a different attitude towards catcalling. In my mind that's required to demonstrate the VR experiment is such a strategy.

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[–] MrSulu@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Similar social experiments include the same fear from being on the receiving end of society when people in real life dressed as Muslims, Jews, homeless people, even as black people (much harder to do). There is such trusism as walking in the shoes of another person. Living as them for a week would be most interesting.

[–] Wren@lemmy.today 3 points 23 hours ago

Black Like Me was eye opening for a lot of people. Even John Howard Griffin, who did blackface to understand the black southern experience, and already fought for civil rights, was surprised by how he was treated.

If I remember it right, at the beginning of his journey he had to beg and find help because he was refused service when trying to cash his travellers checks.

[–] undefined@lemmy.hogru.ch 102 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 48 points 1 day ago (5 children)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-19418-4.pdf

Paper itself above. Need a deeper reading with my notes but on the surface the stats are so-so. They check normality, but don't confirm linearity (use of pmcc will not be valid without - there are also a few other conditions to check for hypothesis testing with PMCC if memory serves), use of a continuous test (PMCC, ANOVA, unpaired t's) for discrete (likert) data is also little controversial, but generally condoned.

As for the conclusion, not a psych phd so I'll assume they know their stuff!

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[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 87 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Turns out walking through a sketchy area and being harassed are scary no matter what genitalia you have.

[–] Linnce@lemmy.world 3 points 20 hours ago

Yeah, but the point here is that they were posing as women with female looking avatars. One guy even says that he would have reacted differently if it was male:

Another participant reported that he would have reacted differently had he been in the role of a man, but since he was embodying a female character, he chose instead to walk away.

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