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Invoking religion is a ridiculous thing to have for a public office anyway, regardless of which one it is. If public officials in the US need to swear on anything, make it the US Constitution or whatever equivalent state/city charter they have.
Most of the people who've sworn an oath to defend the constitution from domestic enemies — literally tens of millions of Americans — have completely ignored their oath.
They're a meaningless virtue signal at this point.
Exactly. Complete separation of church and state is the need
Well, duh, he has to swear on a book that means something to him, preferably a (to him) holy book. How weird would it be if he swore on a Christian bible. not being Christian himself?
The book is not there for our cultural values. It's there to ensure the person swears an oath on something meaningful to them. We just forgot about that because we are used to all sorts of public figures swearing oaths that mean nothing to them.
It truly is amazingly gratifying to see such genuine people as Mamdani & "The Squad" successfully stepping up to make a difference, and enough people actually voting for them to win. It's honestly the only hope I have left in this shithole.
Fully with you there. A lot of people on the left are rapping on Schumer and Jeffries for being too moderate, and rightfully so. But I think there is a part of their extreme caution (or fecklessness) that comes from having seen more leftist candidates go down in flames in the past.
Having people like Mamdani, AOC, and others win elections decisively makes a huge difference. They are not perfect, but they move the needle in the right (left) direction.
It's like the progression from Bush to Trump in reverse.
So, you are saying, technically, I could swear on the script to the Office?
If he swore in on a bible, or any other book, they would say he's avoiding a quran on purpose because he doesn't actually want to swear an oath on it
No matter what he did, they were prepared to complain
Does he though? When we were sworn in at MEPS, we didn't swear "on" anything. We held our hands up as a group and swore "to" protect The Constitution. Clearly that oath didn't mean as much to many veterans as it did to my friends and me.
Same for GS employees, just a mass in processing formality
You can take the oath on a fuggin' Harry Potter book if you want to.
My .02, everyone taking a oath of office should use the Constitution.
Thanks for sharing your 2 centimetres
Oxygen? Yes, we need it to breathe.
I wish my life were so easy that my biggest worry was some random politician, in a place I don't even live in, swearing their oath on a book I don't like.
Goddamnit I hate this world and fucking social media, turning everyone into a mini politician.
This shit has no material effect on your life, and you should be angry about the stuff that does. (like wages.)
Like, if I cared about the reasoning for the bible swearing I wouldn't want a Muslim swearing on one instead of a Quran. Isn't this one of the arguments Christians use as to why they don't want to elect an atheist?
The quiet part they're not saying is that in their minds the fact he doesn't "believe" in their precious book (not that they follow it much themselves) invalidates him both as a politician and a person. It's just a more "politically acceptable" excuse for their irrational fear/hatred of someone different from them - they're afraid all the bullshit they've been programmed to believe all their lives about outsiders being out to get them is now going to come to fruition, and they'll pick at the most absurd things to claim it's true rather than admit they might be wrong.
as an atheist, I'd have to think long and hard about what I took an oath on.
Ultimately, I just don't believe there's anything which I believe would smite me for taking an oath on it and breaking it.
Like my word holds more meaning than books.
Constitution (or whatever local equivalent) since that's essentially what you're sweating to uphold anyway, makes way more sense than any holy book
I'd take an oath on DVDs of TNG season 5.
12” version of tom waits’ rain dogs for me
Given the critical mind that led you to your current atheistic beliefs (what I did there? :P), you have to have developed a mature moral code. I’d argue that taking an oath on something at the core of your being would be more binding than taking one based on any external books or faith system. (Muslim here btw but I love philosophy)
Most people of faith don’t realise how most atheists develop strong intrinsic morality by necessity during their journey. And I’m not saying that all atheists are morally superior! (Humans be humans)
This is just an observation based on my experiences and discussions with most of the open-minded ones I’ve come across thus far.
Education beats indoctrination any day. And the well-informed believer has to go through an atheism phase (to varying degrees, so YMMV) to be honest with themselves. Doubt is a perquisite of developing independent morality that confirms faith. At least that’s what I believe.
Edit: also to anyone reading this, don’t ask me about religious stuff, I’m not an Imam or anything. Just someone who went through some heavy shit and had to think outside the framework to make their life work.
I agree with pretty much everything you said up until you implied they ultimately return to some form of customized religious belief (still gave the thumbs up, tho). If they do that, it's most likely because it's of comfort to them on some level to have that rather than completely obliterate the foundation of their childhood. There's certainly no logic to deciding something religious is responsible for reality when it's obviously one of the many things we are unlikely to ever know the true reason for - mainly because it's recursive: e.g. if "God" created all this, then how did God come to be? Then how did that come to be? Etc. Etc. Etc.
Morality is most certainly possible without any kind of religious foundation. Ask me how I know.
They don’t have to. That’s the beauty of it. Some never do. I don’t fault them for it and never will.
Agency implies choice. So any religion stating that god gave us agency is bound to respect that. It follows that anyone going against this fact or arguing that said agency precludes certain choices does not really understand what free will is, nor the true message being conveyed by their own faith. :)
My undergrad physics textbook
There you go blurring the line between knowledge & beliefs again!
I don't think many politicians think they will face any divine reprisal either. They swear an oath on a bible, then do all the heinous things they do
Kissinger swore an oath on a bible, then signed off on the deaths of tens of thousands
Trump swore an oath on a bible, then spent his first year protecting pedophiles
Rick Scott swore an oath on a bible, shortly after stealing hundreds of millions from tax payers
Personally, I might go for the Bill of Human Rights, or similar (I'm honestly not studious enough to have read it myself to know if it's lacking in some way, but whatever similar document best serves as what such a document should be would be the one I'd go for).
The list of things that Christian Nationalist can't handle is damn nigh infinite.
Bible is def on that list
If he doesn't believe in the Bible, what keeps him from being a murdering rapist?
Believing in the bible.
I guess that makes me a raping murderer. Good to know. I'll warn my family, they don't believe in it either.
It's common knowledge that if you believe in the bible you are a murdering rapist, duh. Hope your family is safe!
IMO, we all should really be sworn in on a copy of the State and/or Federal constitution.
The idea is that the document you swear on has meaning to you. Politicians don't give a flying fuck about the constitution so long as it lines their wallets and keeps them fat and happy. Swearing on a document is inane and meaningless and it's 100% for show. It's meant to keep the people happy for whom the document they are swearing on, holds meaning to in the first place. Make them swear on a signed contract that states, not upholding the written law would mean forfeiting their lives and then maybe it might mean something, as long as there were some enforcement behind that sort of thing.
I'm pretty sure that you could use "Java for dummies" as a book for swearing if you wanted to. It's the swearing that matter, not the hand rest.
Can someone be sworn in on Carl Sagan’s Cosmos?
Yes
I’m going to pledge my oath on a box of pizza :)
Can I be sworn in on the Calvin and Hobbs anthology.
Or maybe a cdrom of Encarta 95?
I mean if Christian Nationalists had their way, nobody would be swearing on anything because democracy would be abolished got a Christian theocracy.
This shit never stops does it? https://youtu.be/WFYRkzznsc0
The complete speechless freeze upon being informed that the Bible isn't legally required was absolutely precious! (I honestly thought the video ended there, the pause & freeze-up lasted so long.) These proudly ignorant assholes are determining the rules for ALL of us to play by, and what we have today is the inevitable result. It's only going to get much worse if we can't turn the ship around quickly.