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Sooooo you want to stop gun violence in the US so your first instinct is to fuck over 3D printers because gun violence is okay as long as the guns are bought from the normal vendors?
This paw isn't about lowering gun violence, this is something pushed to protect the gun manufacturers
Because it's not about stopping gun violence, it's about ensuring the state has the final say over who gets a firearm, and keeps them out of the hands of people who might genuinely need them for self and community defense by any means possible
The 3D printing lobby isn't as big as the NRA.
I don't think it has anything to do with gun manufacturers, or gun violence. Someone who wants to shoot something is going to find a way.
I'm betting it's pressure from AI companies. "We need to find a use for this product soon or we'll lose social permission" or whatever Mr. Microsoft said the other day. And suddenly a couple of states that have big AI companies in them propose legislation that could only be answered by large amounts of machine learning power.
This isn't in reaction to some shooting with a 3D printed gun, is it? I'd have heard about that, the America Bad crowd here on Lemmy wouldn't have passed up a chance to blast that from the rooftops if it had happened. School shootings have faded into the background; that's not "newsworthy" anymore because it's become normal. A shooting with a 3D printed gun would have made headlines, and it hasn't. Until we all got used to it and moved our attention elsewhere, there would be a shooting, the 24 hour tabloids would broadcast a liberal arts major's understanding of the firearms used, the bleeding heart left would call for a ban on those specific kinds of guns, the childrape right would call them retards for getting the technical details extremely wrong, a governor 3 states away would sign a ban on bayonet lugs and collapsible stocks on rifles, in time for someone to shoot up an army base with a pistol. If a 3D printed gun shooting had happened, you could get another round of that cycle going.
That's not what happened though. So what did?
If they were smarter, which they are not, they would look to place restrictions on the slicer software. I doubt the printers even have the capability to recognize what is being printed. Most of them are like move left 3 steps, extrude .1mm of filament, move right 1 step…. yada yada yada.
This is just insanely dumb. They are essentially trying to regulate technology they know very little about.
They are essentially trying to regulate technology they know very little about.
That's not surprising, that's just what politicians do. Especially politicians who are 65+ years old and completely out of touch with technology.
I am reminded of a senator from Alaska trying to describe the internet as a series of tubes.
That was way more accurate and intelligent than this. Like orders of magnitude.
So in other words, what else is new?
The danger if this passes isn't that someone will be able to successfully implement some manner of system for identifying gun parts which will, apparently, rely on pixie dust and magic. In reality this will effectively prohibit 3D printer sales in California entirely because compliance is literally impossible. And it'll and give overreaching cops and prosecutors yet another nonsense charge they can arbitrarily slap people with over "circumventing" this mystical technology which does not in fact exist if they, ye gods forbid, build their own printer.
It's the same horseshit rationale as the spent casing "microstamping" fantasy that legislators have been salivating about for decades. It doesn't work, it'll never work, but that's not going to stop them from wishing it does and therefore turning it into a defacto ban.
Keep in mind, California also has the precedent of their infamous approved handguns list, which notoriously does things like arbitrarily declaring that the black version of some model of gun is legal, but possession of the stainless version of the exact same gun is a felony. We're not dealing with people in possession of any type of rationality, here.
Frankly it seems more like a mild inconvenience then actual prevention. I don't really care how smart a software gets, it can't predict and prevent all possible configurations of prints that could possibly be used to create functioning guns without being so overly restrictive that even perfectly innocent prints would get flagged constantly in which case they simple won't sell to normal users.
It would be a constant game of whack a mole with new creative designs, using multiple printers or with non-printed parts in the design. But no hardware or software that a smart enough engineer has their hands on is impervious to mods either, especially if they're motivated like someone seeking to produce firearms would be.
It's an overreaching law that will likely solve little to nothing, but might make 3d printers in general a bit more annoying to work with. "Sorry, you can't make your dice tower because there's a 16 percent change that it could be capable of firing an RPG out of the dragon's mouth. Please make your design at least 12 percent less gun-ish and try again."
Sorry, I’m just a guy from overseas trying to understand why, in a country where 1 out of 4 people possess weapons, the 3D printer is the problem. I mean, there are companies selling industrial-grade firearms—why the heck is the 3D printer the target?
It's not about firearms.
It's about controlling what you can 3D print.
When your 3D printer has to connect to a third party service to check if it's allowed to print what you just sent it. That's a clear vector for companies to enforce IPs.
Printing a replacement part for your appliance? Sorry, they're blocked.
Printing parts to repair part of your vehicle or snap something back on? Sorry, that's banned.
Printing something that resembles the intellectual property of any other company? Sorry, that's banned.
Can't have you cutting into the profits of corporations by self-servicing and self-repairing.
Also a mass surveillance device to produce surveillance of what people are 3D printing and report it to a central authority.
Because it makes for a good distraction from actual problems that they don't care to solve because those problems would require them to heavily tax millionaires and billionaires.
Let's entertain the thought. How would one identify what is a gun part being printed, and what is a tube, a mechanical latch, or whatever else. Heck, I printed a plastic replica of a movie prop once. Would that be illegal?
I mean, I'm not in the US, and I know how to drive three steppers according to a list of extremely basic instructions that never ever represent anything "final part-y" looking, but the question remains. How do we go from "lots of gcode" to "yep, that's definitely illegal" without saying that everything is illegal?
Banning guns is so easy. But dealing with the systemic problems that lead people to guns who definitely should t have them seems impossible to grasp.
printers can literally be built with dumb electronics, some pieces of metal and an arduino.
juat saying.
Funny enough, guns can be made from a handful of hardware store parts.
there it is. yes, and you guys have a constitutional right to bear arms, with an infinity of them already in circulation.
That, the coming war against VPN in other states and countries, ... Can't we cut through all these baby steps and get straight to a 1984's telscreen mandatory in all rooms?
Oh come on! Think about all the domestic violence's victims!
This is coordinated. Multiple states at the same time.
I don’t think it has anything to do with guns. Middle of the bell curve, most people aren’t using these for guns. They’re using these for right to repair. They’re using these for garage businesses. Shop businesses. Small businesses. (See: not corporate USA). Or for making/creatimg.
I’ve no doubt there are people sitting on some small slice of a tail on the bell curve who do print gun parts, but this is about corporate America.
It’s also a foot in the door dig on free and open source software.
It’s a way to block individual and small business from horning in on corporate America’s profit for a comparably tiny slice of their own.
Printing a knob to replace a broken on/off switch instead of buying a whole new item? Worse, selling that item or even just posting the pattern for free? We can’t have that.
Now, you’re bypassing my item’s proprietary system by printing…
Wait. I was able to sell threaded hand screw knobs for $5 each. Now you’re all just printing them? And the pattern is up there for free?
We need a law.
firearm blocking technology.
grep -r "gun"
It's very funny that people think they need a 3D printer to make a tube, a stock, and a trigger.
If you can make a rubber band gun, you're 70% of the way to a working firearm. And it'll be sturdier then extruded plastic.
Is what killed Abe
Wow a great bill to stop people from making weapons. Y'all gonna ban pipes and steel ball bearings next?
The fuck is our country coming to man.
Here's the thing. This isn't about banning weapons. It's about controlling access to IPs and preventing right to repair.
A forcibly Internet connected online. Only 3D printer that has to first check a public database to see if it's allowed to print the thing you just sent is most definitely going to be used to block you from printing parts to fix your appliances or devices.
And definitely going to be used to provide copyright protection and blocking to IPS of large corporations and companies.
This is stupid.
You easily tell who is 3D printing guns because they have one hand and bits of plastic barrel stuck in their faces.
"3d printing guns" isn't about the pressure holding parts, it's about the traceable serial number holding parts. On most firearms the "lower assembly" or "receiver" (frame, trigger group, feeding assy) is legally considered the firearm and is what bears the serial. Most of those can be printed and use off the shelf hardware to work, albeit with a much lower lifespan.
Pressure containing wear parts that are meant to be exchanged (barrel and breech bolt) typically do not carry serials and are thus not normally traceable. If you eliminate the serialized, traceable part of the firearm, then any collection of parts could be used.
That said, eliminating an entire hobby and industry because gun serialization laws haven't been updated in a hundred years is probably not the right way to do it.
It seems like that should be invalidated as a law? Like it would be if the feds pre-empted it.
But the courts have previously ruled that you can't illegalize dual use devices that have legitimate legal uses and possible illegal ones, as they tried to do with CD burners back in the day for the record companies, may they burn in hell.
Not sure that would apply?
How does this "firearm blocking technology" even work? How does a 3d printer id whatever code the slicer sends it as a gun part?
The only possible way I can think of to make this work is require the firmware to only be able to print G-code files that have a cryptographic signature from some central slicing authority that users submit models to, which then analyzes the STL file with AI or some shit for approval. The only technology that can remotely go "is this STL file a piece of a gun?" is machine learning. You're outright not going to get that done on the 3D printer locally; you'd have to increase the processing power of a 3D printer control board from "microcontroller" to "GPU" entirely for this dumbass tech. Maybe you'd run that on the user's PC but PCs aren't for sale to the public anymore so it will be done in the cloud.
It occurs to me that these initiatives are all popping up on the West coast where Microsoft, Google and OpenAI are based. The other day the CEO of Microsoft came out and said "We're going to have to figure out something for our bullshit tech to actually do before the unwashed masses riot." and what do you know, a couple states that are home to large AI firms start proposing legislation that can practically only be answered by AI out of the blue.
Yeah it seems like this is an excuse to implement complete surveillance of these machines under the guise of preventing guns, just like child abuse is used to justify age checks and chatcontrol to id everyone with id and biometrics and connect them to everything they say or do, in person and online, and make secret social scores, Palantir making those scores at that, the one that wants to use drones to spray people he doesn't like, like his critics, with fentanyl, by his own words.
Every addition of spying by the government is accompanied by giving more spying power, and commercial value, to tech companies as well. They are co conspirators.
They upload the following meme to everyone's printer and call it a day:
Just messaged my assembly member asking to vote against it. I suggest those who live in the state to do the same thing too.
'Kay. They do know these things are barely capable of being networked, right?
Which unfortunately means the base price for a California-legal 3d printer is going to be exorbitant.
Even if this bill was in good faith, I wouldn't want it: I believe that the USA is headed into a civil war, and I want the good guys to have the ability to manufacture stuff if they need to. Be it guns or tractor parts, having flexible logistics will be invaluable. Not just for military use, but also for civilians who don't have access to official parts.
In any case, the implementation of universal healthcare and UBI would be much more helpful for quelling violence. People who can have access to mental healthcare and with enough prosperity, are much less likely to become deranged enough to murder people. Measures like this, often exist to keep the peasants from being able to rise up against their overlords.
This thing is a product of malicious greed, not for the sake of good.
Someone more eloquent than I am needs to craft a compelling argument that this violates the 2nd amendment.
It also violates the first and fourth. And it does nothing about gun violence.
It's also impossible to actually implement and is no more than one more privacy violation to add to the pile.
Easy solution. Sell a separate "motion platform" and an "FDM module" as distinct products that basically snap together.
You can build a weapon with common tools you find in any metal workshop.
Story time:
Right after the war my grandfather - a locksmith by profession - build a cap and ball revolver in his workshop just with the tools he had and scrap metal.
This is going to make life hard for hobbyists not criminals.
Just when I think California couldn't possibly come up with dumber laws, they deliver yet again.
There's genuine concerns they could be addressing but instead go after something that's going to be near impossible for them to enforce.
Blueprints for homemade 3D printers exist that can be built with a pretty short list of parts from Digikey.
Bauer-Kahan is a Democrat, if you wonder.
If the bill is passed, I'd be surprised if Newsom didn't sign it.
