For posting all the anonymous reactionary bullshit that you can't post anywhere else.
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Goddam we are already at "it wasn't real but if it was they deserved it"?
From true anon.
Looks like Frankensteins monster, but spends her time building strawmen
Attack her for being a ghoul not how she looks
I will absolutely attack her for how she looks, considering it was elective surgery. If she was born looking like jigsaw, that's one thing. She spent money to look like that, which absolutely makes it fair to critique.
I have also had elective cosmetic surgery. Are you going to attack me for how my chest looks? I spent lots of money to get top surgery, so I guess in your mind that opens the aesthetics of my chest up to critique.
I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not talking about basic gender affirming surgery, but if you decide to get inhumanly large beach balls, I might crack a joke at it. You're welcome to feel differently, but if people spend vast sums of money to look entirely inhuman, I see no reason that jokes are off limits.
I also make fun of people that dress in absurd ways. That doesn't mean that I'm going to make fun of a trans woman wearing a dress, but I'm going to poke fun at Sam Smith showing up to an event in what looks like overinflated BDSM gear.
Ultimately, my opinion and tastes don't matter, and people are going to do what people are going to do. I won't shame someone for intrinsic characteristics, but I see nothing wrong with poking fun at bizarre aesthetic choices.
No, because you'd get called a bigot and get banned immediately. You know that, and furthermore you (I admit I'm making some assumptions here) want to believe you're a good person who isn't transphobic.
But. The rest of your comment shows more about your beliefs than you mean it too. Your comment makes it abundantly obvious that you believe you are the arbiter of when someone's presentation (gender or otherwise) is just "too weird" and hence worthy of mockery. That belief is fucking harmful and you should work to deworm your brain
I disagree with the assertion that I'm the arbiter of when someone is worthy of mockery. If someone is born that way, it's not fair to poke fun. If someone chooses to look some way, it's fair game. I've done plenty of shit to express myself that hasn't been to others' tastes, and I've had jokes made about it and I've made my own jokes about it. If that person signals discomfort or requests that people stop, then they should stop.
Ultimately, everyone is going to be made fun of for their stylistic choices at some point. Some will be valid, some won't. Some will be funny, some will be not funny.
I've chosen to get top surgery. Making fun of my chest is fair game
Yes, but your gender is intrinsic.
Even if we grant that my gender is intrinsic (which I don't, see my next paragraph), your comment doesn't address the root of the issue. The root of the issue is that you think there's a difference between someone performing their gender "properly" (in your eyes) and someone who is, well, I'm having a hard time summing up your position, because I think it's pretty fucked up, but the other option, I guess, is someone who is presenting themselves in a way you think is weird, and you think they're lying? Mistaken? What are we going for here? I don't think there's such a difference, as you can tell, since I'm struggling to even articulate the second thing.
Ok, so onto the gender being intrinsic situation: I could have very probably lived my whole life as a woman and been pretty ok. Also, my gender isn't one such that top surgery is entirely a given. In a different world, I would still have rather large tits, and not these giant scars across my chest. I absolutely reject the framing that any of this is intrinsic, at least for myself.
Listen, homie, I think something's just not connecting here. Obviously we have different points of view. I respect what you're saying, and I can tell it comes from a good place.
I don't really want to take more time trying to dissect my internal logic, as fun as it's been. I've just got too much other shit going on to get more introspective. I do appreciate the points you've made though.
If you can't shred the ideology they stand for with your own words and can only attack their looks, you show that you stand for nothing and that anyone who is a sympathetic fellow traveler or slowly developing their class consciousness that those they'd side with are rabied dogs who bite anyone in arms reach.
i'm much less interested in one specific person's appearance than i am in the fact that it's the result of a deliberate cosmetic surgery and has become a trend in a specific political circle despite clashing with wider normative standards for "conventionally attractive."
there's probably a couple social science dissertations there
I don't particularly question the reasons why individuals do what they do with their physical form as long as it's fully a choice of their free will. It's none of my business.
considering the politics involved i doubt it's "fully a choice of their free will", even within the extent that such a thing is possible to begin with
As a trans person, I sort of live in the space of "am I making this choice because I actually want to or because I'm trying to fit into society better?" That is, many of my choices about my body could be argued to be not entirely a freely made choice.
But I'm not actually very interested in digging into my motivations for the choices I've made. I thought about them quite a bit before I made them, but now that they're made, I kind of don't care how pressured by society I was when I made them. And if anyone else tried to tell me that my choices were not my own or not freely made? Yeah, fuck right off with that.
The same applies here. You're probably right, Laura Loomer and all the rest are making a choice that is, of course, mediated and informed by society. But I don't care to dig into her motivations, and I am entirely unwilling to say that her choice to get the surgeries she has gotten is anything other than a free choice made with free will
you're speaking to my "even to the extent" cutout. the clothes we do or don't wear, the makeup we do or don't put on, or when, etc. I think that's mostly not worth getting into for regular people
i think the political cult is insulated from wider society and exerts specific pressures on its members and orbiters that goes beyond wider society's background influence. Trumps goons wear a suit and tie because of social norms, they wear shoes that don't fit because of some extra bullshit.
Trump goons wear shoes that don't fit because they got gifted them by Trump. Did Trump give Laura Loomer a plastic surgery giftcard or something?
Excuse me for being a little flippant here, but I do not believe that that these conservative women getting serious plastic surgery is primarily loyalty-signaling. I full on think that's entirely bullshit and will continue to do so right up until one of these conservative women comes out and says it directly
Yeah, she, or Trump, or whomever don't just happen to look like that, they deliberately paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to make themselves look like that. It's an elaborate costume and class signifier. Making fun of Mar-A-Lago face is like making fun of how Louis XIV dressed
I totally agree with you, but this is a separate argument.
Any criticism of Loomer should lead with things like how she successfully lobbied the US government to block desperate Palestinian children from receiving medical care in the US.
But why should her looks be off limits?
The working masses appear in all shapes and sizes. How would you feel if someone was ruthlessly attacking the appearance of someone who has a resemblance to yourself, say that if you were a balding male with a receding hairline and people that you agree with and generally get along cordially make fun of trumps sons for their receding hairlines and do nothing but attack them for physical traits that coincidentally align with your own physical traits. Would you not feel slighted? Wouldn't you wonder if those you are working with are judging your physical form in the same manner as they judge the enemy?
We must fight for the liberation of the working class, and to help join our ranks and feel welcome, we must cast aside our discrimination for the other. This means fighting against racism, misogyny, ageism, xenophobia, homophobia, trans-phobia, discrimination against the disabled, and to struggle against the chauvinist lies of the capitalist class.
The fact you haven't addressed is that she chose to have that appearance, and she did it as a cultural signifier to the MAGA cult.
Choosing to have Mar-a-Lago face is similar to choosing a Nazi tattoo. I harshly criticize the appearance of people with Nazi tattoos, and I think that same logic applies to Loomer's face.
So any women who enjoys cosmetics and has elected to get self-affirming surgery should be shamed just because of a handful of people?
No.
There's a fundamental difference between enjoying cosmetics, self-affirming surgery, and Mar-a-Lago face.
Would you judge a person who elected to get self-affirming surgery in an attempt to look like Hitler? I would, and I think Mar-a-Lago face is a similar concept.
These are actually not that similar, even if it's "Mar-A-Lago" face for the MAGA crowd
Just because the MAGA crowd is obsessed with appearances doesn't mitigate the fact that most of Western society is obsessed with appearance as well
Look at Hollywood and it's rich history of grinding actors to paste only to cast them aside the second they start to show wrinkles
People are getting Mar-a-Lago face to prove their loyalty to the cause. It's fundamentally different than Hollywood's body dysmorphia.
Mar-a-Lago face is not standard Hollywood style procedures, it is designed specifically to stand out from those types of looks. It's a peacock effect. It's a cultural signifier. It's a Nazi tattoo.
It's plastic surgery you dingus, you're lost in the sauce really.
That's the thing about dog whistles, for most people it is just plastic surgery. For most people, 1488 is just a number and the golden sun is just a cool looking symbol.
Hop in the sauce, pal. It's still warm, and it's delicious.
and tattoo ink can be used to make something wholesome and cool or something vile
it's not gender affirmation, it's not whatever the fuck is going on in occupied korea.
if anything it's more similar to foot-binding than truly elective procedures like the bifurcated tongue fad
What is the difference between the mar-a-lago face than people in their 50-60 trying to look younger?
If the specifics of the mar-a-lago face is large lips/eyelashes what makes it different than I don't know the bimbo look?
Only right wing republicans have this aesthetics or the majority of republicans have it but other people also have them?
https://www.paultulley.com/the-mar-a-lago-face-aesthetic-trend/
Mar-a-Lago face is intentionally trying to set itself apart from the traditional cosmetic surgery of trying to look younger, it's a cultural signifier.
I'm no expert, but I think the "bimbo" look includes beach blonde hair, an emphasis on breast surgery; less filler and different facial shape than Mar-a-Lago face.
Because attacking someone for their looks is criticising them for not adhering to your particular standards of attractiveness. Dismissing and attacking someone for the way is constantly used to put down queer people, fat people, disabled people, alternative people etc. These standards come from misogynistic and racist ideas of what attractive people look like, that is skinny people with white skin and white features.
When you attack someone for looking a certain way, you attack anyone who looks like them. People deserved to be judged for their actions and beliefs, not their presentation. Attacking someone's appearance enforces the idea that your appearance needs to be pleasing to others, and if it isnt, you deserve to be degraded, which is extremely harmful to so many people, especially queer and trans people.
Yeah, I'm a disabled person, I really understand cultural stigma.
The big difference in my mind is that I didn't choose to be disabled. Loomer, through a series of elective cosmetic surguries, chose that face.
Yes, very intentionally. Choosing Mar-a-Lago face is one of the strongest signifiers of MAGA cultism. It's practically a Nazi tattoo.
It's called "being consistent and principled".
“They go low, we go high” just like they like it
She's never going to read this, but comrades who are self conscious about their appearance might.
i wish all comrades considering cosmetic surgery a better consultation than the mar-a-lago political clique.
idk about actual plastic surgery but my sister got implants after she recovered from hard drugs because it kinda wrecked her body and I get it. It can be good for body image but also we still should not shame people for bad jobs (she was very happy with her outcome and you would hardly tell but it doesn't always turn out good). Shame her for being a Nazi ffs.
it's not that the quality of the work bad, in fact i think they get exactly what they ask for, it's that the things they ask for are enforced symbols of their horrible political club.
i break with that other poster on the causal smears but i think we can hold some shame for people who put on a uniform and discussion of the trend is worthwhile.
You build the movement by tearing down what they stand for while building what you stand for. This is politics 101
Lol she should be shot
It's not some flippant crap about civility, it's about looking our for your fellow comrades when you fly off the handle and shame a woman for how she looks. You're doing friendly fire with that shit and potentially hurting other women out there who are innocent or struggle with self-image.
The principle of unilateral disarmament in the culture wars.
You can't spread class consciousness when you're being ignored.