There wasn't a single thing they would have done differently? Because my daughter is only 13 and hasn't killed anyone and I can still think of plenty of things I would have done differently if I had to do them over again.
Her son was doomed from the start because he had a narcissistic parent.
Considering they gifted it to him when they knew he was mentally unwell, I would agree that would qualify as failing to secure it.
I wouldn't give a mentally fit 15-year-old a gun. At the age they don't really understand how destructive the gun is, not at a visceral level.
100%. Even my gun nut family will give access to guns, but the kids never truly own a gun or have unlimited access without a guardian. They're kids!
Good. This is some common sense gun laws I think people could get behind. You can keep all the guns you want but if you fail to secure them you’re held liable. Maybe more people will not keep a loaded gun unsecured and accessible to anyone let alone children.
but if you fail to secure them you’re held liable.
Exactly.
People like to scream about their rights, but they forget that rights come with responsibilities.
I personally think maybe we should consider subsidizing gun-safe purchases so people are incentivized to buy a gun safe by making them more affordable to first time gun-buyers.
Guns are pretty expensive on their own, and much like people buying a fancy motorcycle but cheaping out on helmet and chaps, people will skip the gun safe if it costs more than they can afford including the gun.
Or maybe they have to buy a safe and or prove they already have one before they are allowed to buy a gun. We can't take away the right to own a gun but we sure as hell can make sure it's safely stored.
That's sort of the situation in the UK, or at least where I'm at.
The UK also doesn't allow pistols anyway. Which is the first kind of gun that most people buy.
Not strictly true.
Pistols are allowed in Northern Ireland, and are subject to the same licences and regulations as rifles and shotguns.
And there are some pistols that are designed to comply with regulations and can be bought.
A better option sure, but I've been alive in the USA long enough to know that's a non-starter. We're absolutely the country of "You have the freedom to ignore safety precautions because there aren't laws against being a complete fucking idiot and a danger to other people."
Sorry I was trying to live in the dystopian reality we exist in for a moment.
I don't exactly have solutions for what to do about conservatives always arguing in bad faith, so my suggestion reflected a political reality, which is that our system of government treats their lack of education and arguing in bad faith valued as the same as educated good faith arguments. It's wrong, it's stupid, it's backwards, and it's so broken we're literally having to have courts decide whether a President can be a King, actually. But it's the system as it exists, not as much as we wish it wasn't a bunch of bullshit crafted by white slave owners who wanted to protect the aristocracy by only allowing land-owning white men to vote. We're not exactly starting with a system that wasn't a pile of dogshit to begin with over here.
We’re absolutely the country of “You have the freedom to ignore safety precautions because there aren’t laws against being a complete fucking idiot and a danger to other people.”
For sure, but at least holding them responsible when someone gets hurt or killed is a start. It’s too late to prevent “being a danger to other people”, but maybe some will learn not to “ignore safety precautions”. It’s pretty minimal justice for someone’s life, but it’s a step
You can keep all the guns you want but if you fail to secure them you’re held liable.
I think support for this depends a lot on where that line is drawn. Failing to keep your admittedly troubled children away from guns is obvious (and covered by existing laws, hence the guilty verdict here). At the other extreme, I don't think having a gun stolen during a legitimate robbery should be criminalized, since that's moving into victim-blaming territory.
I'm not sure where the line is drawn, but a parent in this sort situation has some responsibility both from the failure in parenting and the failure in securing the firearm. Makes for an easy agreement with the verdict in this specific situation, imo.
Having an unsecured gun stolen during a robbery vs having a secured gun stolen during a robbery are different though.
Hard to prove if it was secured without some sort of surveillance on the safe. But easy to prove if they have no records of ever owning a safe.
If you have a gun stolen, reporting the theft would presumably indicate that you did not willingly give the firearm to the person who stole it.
The "safe storage" laws are usually pretty worthless just on how they define "safe" on top of the actual problem with enforcement. They're not meaningful in any practical way, as anyone responsible enough that they should be allowed to own a gun already locks their shit down.
People who only lock their firearms away because they're required to are the reason shit like Nanovaults are so popular. They're a good-sounding concept, but in reality are held together with flimsy plastic internals. You can literally pry them open with a knife or housekey, or even just slam them onto the ground to pop them open.
tl;dr: Given the lax legal definition of a safe, using one doesn't necessarily add any meaningful security.
As an aside, I have safes for valuables and documents I'd like to survive a housefire...but I don't have any record of owning them. Were they stolen, I don't think it'd be easy to prove I didn't have them.
I can't be the only person who cringes anytime a juror from a big trial does a press tour, right?
Creepy as fuck, and makes me wonder what will come out about their conduct during trial.
We pay jurors a pittance to give up weeks if not more of their lives for these massive cases. I can’t blame them for wanting to get something more from it.
Yup. When I got roped into jury duty, it almost caused me to go homeless; I lost a five figure contract because I couldn’t guarantee availability anymore. And the $4 per day from jury duty didn’t even cover the cost of my parking.
you show up for 1 day, tell the judge (if you are selected as a jury candidate for a trial) your financial situation and they'll excuse you and say they will call you up at a later time.
My state/county doesn’t have an exemption for financial burden. And even then, voir dire happened on the first day of the contract, so I still would’ve missed out regardless.
15 minutes of fame
Yeah, seems fraught. That said, I feel a little different where it might be attached to a societal issue like gun control vs something where it's a tabloid driven murder case or something.
People ask "how did this happen?" after a shooting. The inevitable answer "they were raised bad" is now being scrutinized and this is what it looks like when we agree raising a child is now a legal liability. Making good parenting a legal requirement is a good step towards better adults. It's going to be interesting seeing those who believe "property rights over human rights" spin this decision to make them the victim.
Ok, sure, but some pro-life states make you have kids even if you don't want to continue with the pregnancy. So this may cause unfit parents to exist due to government policies.
Which is why we need to make the Republican party extinct.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner!
There's definitely an opportunity for a slippery slope here. At the same time, these parents put strawman examples of negligent parents to shame. They did almost everything bad except actively aid their son in the act.
The issue is though who defined what is and isn't "good parenting"?
Good thing they withheld her last name, because she's about to become an instant celebrity for lonely dudes into pale gothy women.
I respect a chick that goes full Elvira for a morning show interview. Staff makeup team must've been over the moon about touching her up.
Thank you! I know it's vapid, but I can't believe I had to scroll so far to find people talking about this absolute lewk!
Yes, and as long as you have those irresponsive gun owners, your school shooter problem will not go away.
That's almost impossible to prove to a jury in a civil case. Pretty landmark they proved it in a criminal one. I still wouldn't expect it to be a trend though.
Is it not weird that jurors can just get out there and start selling their stories after being involved in a trial...? It feels weird.
They didn't go far enough. Anyone who treats guns like this around children should be nailed to a building and pecked to death by birds.
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