Unfortunately very normalised in society. Even I was only alerted to words like "insane" being very hurtful a few months ago. I'm a big "absurd", "ridiculous" and of course "unserious" user now.
Good post, 
hopefully there can be selfcrit and waning usage of these terms in harmful contexts.
I usually open people's eyes on the term crazy when I have the right audience because our discourse around that term is the obvious stuff but also it implies that someone should be locked up or deprived of rights but it's also very common to use it to imply that someone "deserves" to be taken advantage of ("our prices are crazy" and "we've gone completely mad").
Kinda gross when you think about it, especially in the context of the stats on mentally ill people being abused and exploited.
Super fucking gross, I hate to see it. Ableist-ass society...
I'm personally a big fan of understatement, so I like using ridiculously underwhelming insults. Like for this South Dakota governor, calling her meanie of rude when atrocious might be a more appropriate word.
"lame" and "crippled/crippled by" were pointed out to me by a friend who has muscular dystrophy a few years ago, they are also both incredibly common. I've sadly had quite a bit of pushback when trying to correct comrades on it (even in the old r/CTH sub)
hey have some more pushback
as a fellow "can't walk properly" person, the last time lame applied to me was a bible passage. the only times I'm (or anyone else, unless there's an american vs commonwealth english thing going on here) am reminded about the ability meaning is when etymology 
s bring it up like it's a problem.
it's certainly dated to call someone "a cripple" and, again in my experience, that's usually self-ID. Usages like crippling anxiety or a damaged mechanical system ("land a crippled airplane") don't seem to be disparaging or contributing to the marginalization of people so someone would have to explain to me how those are ableist.
90% of the time "ghoul" and "ghoulish" are more apt descriptors for the kind of mindlessly destructive, hollow, anti-human, posessed-by-capital behavior we're talking about anyway.
To be fair it is very rude to the actual raised dead
Vampiric is another potentially good one
This should be an emote lol
Good post. I also dislike perjoratives about low intelligence, too. I’ve personally made a very committed effort to cut out ableist insults and language from my vocabulary.
Yeah, it can be almost surprising to see how much ableist language can sneak into our everyday language.
Just to add to the conversation, it is incredible how many words are rooted in ableism. If you're not actively checking your language, you likely use some words that aren't cool without knowing it. I grew up in the 90's which was right before people took this stuff seriously. I hate to admit it, but when I was a kid/teen, my best friend was more on the ball about this stuff and would point it out to me all the time. He really helped me think harder about the words I use.
Also there's this weird problem straight white males over a certain age have where their bigoted ass co workers just assume you're cool with it, and You're faced with the choice of causing a stink and facing being fired or ostracized, or you can let it roll off your back. There's definitely a middle ground, but it comes with risks to your livelihood just the same.
Also there's this weird problem straight white males over a certain age have where their bigoted ass co workers just assume you're cool with it, and You're faced with the choice of causing a stink and facing being fired or ostracized, or you can let it roll off your back. There's definitely a middle ground, but it comes with risks to your livelihood just the same
This one sucks, and I personally struggle with it surprisingly often. Ableism is the most common where I work, but of course these coworkers smuggle in other shit too. It's hard to find the line of correcting coworkers vs protecting your job (right to work state, so of course employment never feels entirely secure). That being said, I have had pretty decent luck with a few more senior people at my current job, there's just a lot of pushback on anything they do not immediately understand. Still don't feel comfortable enough to unmask around these people or be out at work by any means, but there is that sliver of a silver lining.
Since it wasn't mentioned, please make sure to file a mod report if you do see ableist comments. Mods aren't omnipotent and omnipresent Cthulonic cosmic horrors waiting in the shadows for one of you to slip up so we can bonk you with the silly hammer, so if you see something ~~say something~~ report it!
Mods aren't omnipotent and omnipresent Cthulonic cosmic horrors
Speak for yourself 
I helped make you, don't give me any lip young great old one!
Hexbear mod application: what Bloodborne ending did you get first
Ableism on Hexbear?
43 comments, (35 new)
okay read the comments, thread's cool 
yeah we need to do better on that. brainstorming alternate words might help. I've taken to calling people dipshits but that doesn't really work for this sort of unhinged, vile behavior.
Vicious, monstrous, sadistic, depraved, detestable or reprehensible (especially morally)
Depraved I think is an especially good one! It has that venom without (as far as I know) being unintentionally hateful.
This thread makes me think that maybe we could brainstorm a post which has common ableist terms to provide suggestions for alternatives to drive a bit of gentle culture change.
I use words like ridiculous, laughable, senseless, absurd, and wild (e.g. wild idea/let's not get wild) a lot in the place of crazy. I could do better but I'm reasonably good on it.
I need to do better on terms like stupid and dumb. I know on the slur scale they're very mild but that's not a good excuse.
This sounds like a great idea! I don't know a lot of slurs, but I know the ones that bother me. (Most of them were in the post already) But we could invite others to share ones that bother them and we can hopefully achieve this!
"Despicable" is my go-to.
(Also, greetings fellow Cupcake).
I just steal from old movies: Dog-brained, good-for-nothing, layabout, brickminded, ass-handed, shitspreading, flearidden amateurish ignorant SOCIAL DEMOCRATS.
those are good, they all imply the person is dumb or lazy or just "bad" tho, I struggle more to find words for calculated uncaring evil, or behavior that flagrantly violates all normal social boundaries in order to do harm, than calling people ignorant, incompetent, or just bad
"Bloodthirsty warmongers" might work here and there? (Thinkin about alternative insults for imperial core governmental people)
Language to go off on someone for being a dickhead that doesn't catch ND or marginalized people in the collateral is a lot more common than language for telling someone their ideas aren't good, which all seem to be predicated on insisting they instead actually have a neurological condition that many people struggle with.
With the added bit of not necessarily being accurate. Even if they do struggle with the condition, that doesn't mean their idea is bad. The idea being bad is what does.
Good post. And like others I’ll chime in with the casual ableism regarding intelligence, it takes an effort to cut out those phrases, but it’s worth it and should be encouraged.
Yeah. They can be hard to cut out, but I am trying. Ableism is just so ingrained in US culture it can be hard to even become aware of things you're saying that can be ableist. But it's definitely worth it.
Yeah, in the same way that white hexbears have shitty opinions about race, most NT have shitty behaviours regarding ND comrades. Just like liberals will call Trump and Putin gay, some hexbear users do the ND equivalent of that.
Respect for identity and not using harmful language is a privilege only given to the in-group. That's why it's common to make fun of Ben Shapiro's voice or height even though it's not a moral judgment on him and hurts comrades who have those same traits. Humans are humans.
As others have pointed out, ableism is pretty heavily embedded in mainstream culture and one of the more acceptable forms of discrimination.
I’m guilty of using words like stupid all the time and I’m ND myself. It’s hard to buck something that’s so commonplace.
You're absolutely right, I keep hearing "stupid", "idiot" and "insane" and "psycho" be used on Hexbear and other left spaces to describe what is mundane fash behavior done virtually all the time by neurotypicals who (news flash!) aren't afraid of any consequences for their actions. I'll make sure to call this out the next time I see it, our ND comrades shouldn't have to suffer just so someone can call Biden some ableist term for the 1000th time.
If someone doesn't agree, they need to be dealt with by the mod team.
I do want to show some grace, though. Like, the language is so common and socially accepted that it can be hard to realize you're stigmatizing people. Though I agree people who double down would be problematic.
I was surprised how positive the comments section was until I realized this was posted to !neurodiverse@hexbear.net
Agreed 100%.
Many words like these reside in a cultural space where you know they're punching down on ND people, but you somehow end up being treated like the asshole the moment you call someone out on it.
I think that's partially responsible for the term "brain worms" taking off in leftist spaces. Rhetorically, we all want some way to mock someone for being particularly intellectually lazy, naïve, or uncritical in their analysis, but it seems like all the words that have the intended weight on the receiver are all just direct comparisons to people with learning or psychiatric disabilities.
Exactly! Those descriptions are definitely the sense we often go for, but they don't carry the mocking tone we'd sometimes like to include, though it may just be inherent that something with a hurtful connotation must be harmful to someone. Otherwise it wouldn't really be hurtful.
Good post. I think I use these terms a lot without noticing. I will work on cutting out these words as pejoratives in my language.
Honestly, this was pre-hexbear for me, I use poop or pee related terms. Like it's used with adolescents and infants. I was pretty proud when I stopped using cr*zy. That one was difficult as it doesn't seem to be problematic compared to the explicitly medical terms which you shared (at least to me).
Oh some years ago I stopped using h*steria after I learned about its targeted usage towards women (sexist) and in an ableist way towards women or girls who acted "out of line".
I'm always willing to change my language but often find it difficult to find appropriate strength replacements. I've been dropping in "ghoul" a lot of the time but very occasionally it just doesn't feel right, you know what I mean?
Medical words I'm not too bad on and they're usually easy to replace but I think ability-based words are a weak point though. I don't have a good replacement words for when someone makes errors out of carelessness, ignorance or airheadedness. I've used dense to replace "stupid" from time to time but it doesn't always feel right to me.
Often the more common the word in society the harder it feels to find a suitable replacement for it.
i'll edit the comment where i said it the other day. i used psychotic when i meant psychopathic but unaware that could be harmful
i also understand psychotic is it's own thing. i've experienced temporary psychosis before and psychopathy is still a frontier yet to be explored that will probably end up being a seen as a spectrum of neurodiversity just like autism and ADHD
It's ADHD, Autism, OCD, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar, aspd, etc etc etc etc
“neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior”
So, it’s very broad, if you feel like it describes you then it does as far as we're concerned
1.) ableist language=post or comment will probably get removed (enforced case by case, some comments will be removed and restored due to complex situations). repeated use of ableist language=banned from comm and possibly site depending on severity. properly tagged posts with CW can use them for the purposes of discussing them
2.) always assume good faith when dealing with a fellow nd comrade especially due to lack of social awareness being a common symptom of neurodivergence
2.5) right to disengage is rigidly enforced. violations will get you purged from the comm. see rule 3 for explanation on appeals
3.) no talking over nd comrades about things you haven't personally experienced as a neurotypical chapo, you will be purged. If you're ND it is absolutely fine to give your own perspective if it conflicts with another's, but do so with empathy and the intention to learn about each other, not prove who's experience is valid. Appeal process is like appealing in user union but you dm the nd comrade you talked over with your appeal (so make it a good one) and then dm the mods with screenshot proof that you resolved it. fake screenies will get you banned from the site, we will confirm with the comrade you dm'd.
3.5) everyone has their own lived experiences, and to invalidate them is to post cringe. comments will be removed on a case by case basis depending on determined level of awareness and faith
4.) Interest Policing will not be tolerated in any form. Support your comrades in their joy!
Further rules to be added/ rules to be changed based on community input
RULES NOTE: For this community more than most we understand that the clarity and understandability of these rules is very important for allowing folks to feel comfortable, to that end please don't be afraid to be outspoken about amendments and addendums to these rules, as well as any we may have missed
I haven't played bloodborne