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[-] madcaesar@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Two tenants

  1. You must protect those weaker than you
  2. You may only punch up or in self defense.
[-] shneancy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

honestly I don't know. When you look at the religions of the world all of them say "love and help each other please :) be good to your fellow human beings, be kind, be gentle" and then you look at the execution of those ideas by the majority of religious people- and it's all twisted and used for hate & you see people saying that without the threat of eternal punishment there is nothing holding them back from hurting others

instead of religion forcing compassion I'd say we should just teach compassion really

[-] HaleHirsute@infosec.pub 2 points 2 days ago

That’s wise, good ideas!

[-] Shou@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

That does sound wise. Let's make a religion out of teaching compassion! /j

[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

It literally doesn't matter. Religions have tried before, but people are always there to corrupt the hell out of it. It's an intrinsic problem with religion; relying on blind faith will always, eventually, lead to tragedy.

[-] Shou@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Dunno. Some stuff was corrupt from the start.

[-] treefrog@lemm.ee 33 points 4 days ago

The Satanic Temple and Buddhism both fill that niche for me. So, I would make it like them.

[-] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 2 points 3 days ago

I would suggest that you reconsider TST in light of recent actions. At the very least, look into all of the people that have been summarily kicked out solely by Doug Mesner AKA Lucien Greaves, been stripped of their ministerial titles, and how many chapters/congregations have separated from the org. If you use Reddit at all, you can find some of it there. I'm friends on Facebook with some of the higher-up people that either left or were kicked out, and... It ain't pretty.

The long and short of it is that Doug Mesner and Cevin Soling (AKA Malcom Jarry) entirely own all of the intellectual property that is The Satanic Temple, and so they have complete control over everything that goes on. It's fundamentally authoritarian, even though they officially espouse more anarchistic, freedom-loving principles. The most recent schism is because Doug is exercising his authoritarian tendencies and throwing people out that disagree with him.

[-] treefrog@lemm.ee 1 points 20 hours ago

I appreciate the heads-up. I'm actually a Buddhist, so not really looking for a new religion. I mostly admire the work TST has done for religious pluralism.

I watched Hail Satan? They went into some of the schisms in the TST, but it was framed as the chapter head not following the principles and damaging TST's overall goals (encouraging people to kill Trump). Are there other examples? I'm curious, but not curious enough to go on reddit.

[-] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 10 points 4 days ago

Not completely safe there with Buddhism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

I don't have anything to back this up, but I wonder if there's a strong correlation between a religion being minority in a region and how "peaceful" it is, because my suspicion is that majority/power of any kind will always come at the risk of attracting chuds or corrupting the fearful into protecting themselves by attacking others. Literally "others" I guess.

Pet hypothesis just held up by vibes though so

[-] treefrog@lemm.ee 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

And a sect of the TST was removed because they started pushing for violence. Every religion is vulnerable to corruption by people's pride and other hindrances. Buddhism is no exception. Nor is any imaginary one folks come up with in this thread.

Anyway, power corrupts. We've always known that. The 'devil' in Buddhism is the lust or will to power. Lies and manipulation are simply a tool it uses. And, like Buddha Nature, we all have it.

[-] DrSleepless@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

In order to make it wholesome and helpful I would not create one.

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[-] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 25 points 4 days ago

Any particular reason that you think we need more religion?

[-] QuantumSparkles@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 days ago

I think it’s just a thought exercise

[-] HaleHirsute@infosec.pub 8 points 4 days ago

I don’t think we need more religion, no. I think people would like options with less archaic ideas, and that they would like the community and activity that religious groups can offer if the strange belief requirements can be left behind.

[-] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I've actually put a lot of thought into this lately, what with the most recent schism in The Satanic Temple.

The seven tenets are great. I'd keep those.

I would start with the understanding that it was an atheistic religion, and I would treat it as such. I would write a constitution, and a charter, and any group that agrees with and meets the requirements laid out in the constitution should be allowed to affiliate themselves. It should be organized as a non-profit.

I like the way that TST's ministry program worked before Doug threw most of the ministers out. I'd steal that. I would amend the process slightly though; I'd say that any person with a diagnosed personality disorder would not be eligible for ministerial positions, as narcissists, people with borderline personality disorder, etc., should not ever be in leadership positions. I would say that any person that successfully completes the ministerial program should be eligible to be a leader of a congregation, and people that have not passed would not be.

I would propose that the congregations send representatives to a national (or international) convention where they decide what the organization's position should be on issues--I believe that it takes two majority votes in the SBC over a period of four (?) years for major doctrinal changes, or changes to the constitution--and those representatives would also select board members, who would in turn select a president. (I'd have terms of board members be offset so that there was never a period where a large percentage of the board was turning over.) Fundamentally, the church should be run by the people, and should be serving the congregants, rather than the congregants serving the organization.

I believe that yes, members and congregations should be paying in to the national organization, but no person within the organization should be getting paid for their work. I don't care if it's a collection, a set amount per person per week, or what; operating a religion requires funding. That said, the only compensation to anyone within the org should be minimal travel expenses for people that need to travel for their position; otherwise, it should be entirely a lay ministry. (Yes, that would be a financial hardship for some ministers, but I'd rather see that than have people seeking leadership for the financial benefit.) Finances should be fully transparent, and visible to all members, so that everyone can see where money is coming in from, and where money is going.

I also like the Mormon model of fully engaging all members. As long as it's not onerous, I think that this can help individuals feel seen and heard, and also keep them feeling like a part of community. I would do things like have each members selected in turn to deliver brief biweekly sermons, with sources, and then have members in each congregation engage in a roundtable discussion about the sermon. You would want to have the possibility of sub-groups within each congregation so that different needs of individual members could be taken care of.

I made some notes somewhere, but I'm not sure where they are right now.

EDITS:

Members should have to pay, because the operations of a religion cost money. You have to have a (stable) place to meet, you need to pay for power, and yes, you need to pay for attorneys and accountants. It should definitely be strictly a lay ministry though, with leaders only being compensated for their expenses, not time.

The issue with The Satanic Temple now is that Doug Mesner (aka Lucien Greaves) and Cevin Soling (aka Malcolm Jarry) outright own all the legal entities that make up TST. There is no process that can replace them; they can remove any person or group that they don't like. They have the ultimate power to make all the rules, and they are entirely above them. That means that, despite TST claiming to believe in freedom from tyranny, it's fundamentally an authoritarian organization rather than a democratic one. For all of it's many, MANY other faults, the Southern Baptist Convention is democratic, and I think that's a quality worth emulating.

[-] HaleHirsute@infosec.pub 1 points 3 days ago

Wow great thoughts, I’ll learn from this here for sure.

[-] Matriks404@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Probably a deist one. One where it says that God have left us, because he wanted that we need to go forwards without his guidance, and it's the only way to have more civilized society, especially given how bed-time stories don't have much to do with today's reality.

[-] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Gods do not exist and find your way through science and technology.

Oh, and if I’m mortally wounded, definitely do not put me in a machine and sacrifice thousands of psychics to keep me alive.

And remember, Gods don’t exist! Definitely don’t be a heretic or an alien!

[-] toomanypancakes@lemmy.world 16 points 4 days ago

It would have two tenets:

  1. Be excellent to each other
  2. Party on, dudes
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[-] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The most fun parts of religion are the camaraderie and intricate, abstracted rituals that used to serve one purpose but now serve a different, often symbolic one.

So lots of that. Spaced out throughout the year as to give followers a way of marking the passing of time and a reason to call out of work at regular intervals.

Oh, let's toss in a lil religious specific language to aid as a group identifier and how about some arbitrary rules/guidelines that aren't strictly enforced and vary by region but give those rules loving peoples something to grab onto.

Oh oh oh and unique cuisine! Food goods made in certain ways at certain times, with some slight variation so followers could have techniques and recipes to share and mild, inconsequential things to disagree and hold frivolous, memetic arguments about.

The details don't really matter all that much, as long as it can serve as a way to find community and camaraderie in new places, reinforce solidarity with your fellow humans, and give some rituals for timekeeping and distraction from modern life.

[-] similideano@sopuli.xyz 7 points 4 days ago

You just described the Esperanto community 😅

[-] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 4 days ago

I'd like to think these are just some of the universal things of what makes a community fulfilling and fun, as I was mostly trying to abstract some of my favorite things about being Jewish from the faith component.

[-] similideano@sopuli.xyz 4 points 4 days ago

I think you did a great job distilling it. I can see many parallels with other communities I know too.

[-] HaleHirsute@infosec.pub 6 points 4 days ago

Ah gotta get Festivus on the calendar! I like the rules idea too, maybe a few super random things just to be quirky.

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[-] Mango@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

2 girls at the same time.

[-] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago

"Blessings to the Future Generations" forward-thinking traditions rather than handicapping the now to fit the past's biases

[-] HaleHirsute@infosec.pub 2 points 3 days ago

Nice, that’s great.

[-] olafurp@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Smoking weed to resolve differences

[-] CaptKoala@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

Peace pipe or death sentence, either way, someone has a good time.

[-] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago

Make my god a well-meaning fuckup.

You got cancer? Shit! Aw, fuck man, that keeps happening, I'm sorry. I keep trying to tune this thing better, but I'll level with you, I never actually set out to be a god, things just got kinda out of hand, and... oh fuck! The stratosphere! Nonononono don't be on fire, look, I gotta take this, we'll talk later, ok?

[-] Crackhappy@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

That sounds like a writing prompt.

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[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 5 points 4 days ago
[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 2 points 3 days ago

Like, if there was some other community where I could go and just sing songs with my neighbors, church would lose like 80% of its appeal to me.

[-] Godthrilla@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago

Buddhism is effectively a "how to" guide to satisfaction , it just goes against everything corporations preach. To be fair, I'm not strong enough to be a Buddhist, but of the religions I've studied, it seems pretty open and shut, "follow these instructions and you will have a good life". Buddhism wins. But it doesn't involve parties and such

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[-] HaleHirsute@infosec.pub 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I’d make it atheistic, include meditation and be proactive with volunteering or useful projects.

[-] Jackthelad@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago

Isn't this basically Buddhism? Apart from the atheistic bit, of course.

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[-] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

General tenants about being excellent to eachother, none of that smiting bullshit for people to cherrypick.

Multitheistic with different gods responsible for different aspects of reality with the general commandment of the religion being that the best way to become closer to the gods (or specific god of preference) is to understand their creation and thus understand them (go do science!)

Throw in some enjoyable aspects like funerals being a celebration rather than a sombre occasion; colour code the gods so we don't even up with everything being fucking gray or gilded; And have a neat little offering ceremony for each god thats simple but unique and inexpensive so people can go all starsigny on it, offerings being a good luck thing rather than mandatory.

[-] snooggums@midwest.social 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

In high school I made up a pretend religion (order of the gecko) with some friends as a joke that had a positive take without the baggage that the religions we were familiar with. The tenets were about actually being accepting and opposing intolerance.

A couple decades later I heard about the Satanic Temple and other than the symboligy it was basically the same!

[-] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 days ago

I don't think it matters what you include, people are perfectly OK taking parts as they will and leaving others behind when it suits them. Organized religion creates a hierarchy, and there is always someone who will want to bend the hierarchy for themselves but not others.

[-] Pandoras_Can_Opener@mander.xyz 4 points 4 days ago
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[-] Quetzalcutlass@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Tak does not require we think of him, only that we think.

  • Terry Pratchett, Thud!

Discworld in general has a ton of good quotes, but Thud! is especially full of relevant ones, being about religious extremists warring against inconvenient truths.

[-] weeeeum@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

I don't think there is a religion that can be overwhelmingly beneficial today.

Most religions already emphasize kindness, generosity and compassion but it is ultimately easily corruptable. Every religious group seemingly has to hate somebody.

Long ago it would have imperative to human development, to explain the world around us and to motivate people to work cooperatively. Science has fulfilled that role however and now it seems religion makes individuals closer minded, refusing to believe in reason.

If religious people sternly stuck to their principles (looking at American Christians) I don't even think we'd be having this conversation in the first place.

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this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2024
59 points (88.3% liked)

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