"To cool everyone’s jets, you will be getting your slop back,"

The slop was only the catalyst. The issue quickly became that mod statement misgendering much of the site(and having an un-CWed self harm reference), harassment against people who were against it, and the fact that other lemmy mods got told before we did. Is there any plan to address those issues?

Edit:

Or just ban people for opposing it I guess

a plea to the admins generally: please address the flagrant transphobia/bizarre gender essentialism that was the thrust of a couple of the (anonymous!) mod takes from the big thread. if this gets swept under the rug my faith in admins/mods to consistently oppose bigotry will be severely damaged. the silence is already deafening on the issue.

The antagonism shown by the admins and mods every time they decide something behind the scenes then spring it on everyone unilaterally is so exhausting. If you hate interacting with users so much that you're making alts to harass people or just deciding to ban people who politely disagree with you then this really isn't the right gig for you

this is being handled so childishly by what seems like a good handful of the mods and admins lol. complete shit show. why not just lock the thread and perma everyone criticizing you all at this point, or do you enjoy arguing with us that much? i acknowledge that some users have acted overly hostile and crossed lines which sucks for you all to have to deal with but you all have created this situation (problem was fake to begin with) and gone on to drop the ball on resolving it several times in comical fashion.

Obviously this isn't directed at you, TC

So, I don't give a shit about the controversy itself, but the way that the mods in a closed chat just hyped themselves up on saying "This is what white bros do" to each other and then handing down the pronouncement that some of the most popular communities are only for chauvinists and then masking their real motives with an excuse about the names is just awful. The disingenuousness, the insular snobbishness, the immaturity, the cynicality. It's just disgusting.

I have no further thoughts.

This wasn't really adressed, so I'm just gonna include my comment from the last thread, so maybe it will get adressed, as it was way out of pocket and deserves a response.

I think there should probably be some accountability for whoever was/were behind "the white cishet man vibes" part of the post, editing it out of the original post doesn't change that is was there, saying that shit was kinda fucked, as many people in the original post noted

which one of you did this please

Also to add.

Can mods/admin stop making big changes to the site without posing the question to the community? Can this be written in big bold font somewhere? Was nothing learned during the vcj incident?

then run a slop channel naming competition for a new contained community

this will be the most important election of our lives

This post has mentioned chauvinistic, misogynistic, and toxic tendencies three times but provided literally no examples of such - nor did Carcosa's original post. I am not trying to say that these things have never existed or never will exist in posts/comments on my beloved Hexbear nor am I saying that you (or any other admin/mod) should have to provide examples of literally any/everything TC69 - but I am begging you to actually provide some legitimate examples because otherwise this just sounds like the same "we don't want the dunk tank because white cishet male behavior" justification that everyone was like to

Why is someone who just returned after 3 years in charge of fixing this? Nothing personal but you're in the worst position to address culture.

I said it 3 years ago, I'll say it again today. I'm not going to sit here and post every little example of things we're describing as an issue when the modlog is publicly available.

If mods/admins want us to take the modlog seriously they have to take it seriously first. What is a user supposed to think when they look at the modlog and see this or this?

I'm glad to wrt to the slop things and the rules things. I'm surprised there's no mention of any actions wrt to the mods or transparency. Unless that falls under COC somehow, but that's not the vibe I'm getting.

This strugglesession evolved slowly over time as it became clear the actual reasons for closing the comms were not the reasons given. It gradually became evident a subsection of the mod team have really shitty attitudes about what it is they do and the position they have in the community. They're reddit power mods wishing to rule over ever shrinking digital fiefdoms. If we want to reckon with "chauvinism" then we need to start with those holding the most influential positions, and we need to set in place a system that makes it so this cliquey backdoors ratfuckery shit does not happen again.

Like the labour shitfuck to your tory fuckshit I applaud your initiative, but I invite you to go further :tory:
There's a lot that could be done to achieve more transparency. I'll find my old comment for some of the bulletpoints

edit: Christ I had to scroll thru a lot of dreg to find it. Can't believe you'd literally force me to see all those dumb takes and not even give me the ability to post, truly this is onethousandninehundredeightyfour.
Anyway, link to long post The relevant bit:

I don't think this is the last time this situation will erupt, if nothing changes about how moderation is handled and how site changes are handled.
Keeping the two comms open just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Not kicking the mods who wrote that shit out is also a bad sign, for the direction this whole thing is headed.

I would really recommend that mod discussions aren't anonymous anymore. Have the matrix board or whatever it is, but make it so everyone can go and look what is being posted, just like with the modlog. The only time discussions should be anonymous, should be when there is a risk to operational security, and not a vague risk, an actual one. It should also be announced whenever those anonymous discussions take place and explained why they have to be anonymous.

Early in the site days we went away from displaying which mod took an action in the modlog, and just blaming everything on automod. I think reverting that would go a very long way to bust a lot of this cliquey shit.

When users notice certain users get special treatment, they get banned for commenting on it, until the situation becomes so egregious that it cannot be hidden anymore. Not allowing the userbase to call out bad mod practice, is also not good. We've closed both userunion and feedback because the mods don't like the "drama" - Getting called out for shitty behaviour. We really need a comm where the userbase is free to voice concerns and grievances. That would also go a long way towards avoiding these situations in the future. And this time mods shouldn't remove posts just because they dislike them, that's pissbaby shit.

Other good effortposts I found while scrolling thru the dreg

• Ratboy on transparency
• Frank On healing
• Frank On some of the stuff that needs to be healed
• Morte On what made people pissed, which really wasn't the tanks
• CoolerOpposide On what ought to happen

Finally: For those who are just now tuning in and wondering if all the fuss is about the naming of some comms. It's not. It's about people feeling lied to, talked down to and mistrustful of the mod team due past behaviours and the way this was handled. This comment thread probably gives you the best idea of what was the catalyst for being Very Mad Online.

@TransComrade69@hexbear.net I'm done now, you can dunk on me knowing no more edits will come. I'll still think Naruto is worse than One Piece though

feeling very foolish for ever thinking the internet moderators on here don't have that much in common with all internet moderators ever

There's something really funny about a bunch of commie admins who want a serious leftist community, but rather than actually committing to anything like democratic centralism by gauging their communities' thoughts on things they instead unironically do the whole undemocratic shadow cabal 1984 meme by dropping half-baked ideas on everyone with zero prior warning or discussion.

And by "really funny," I of course mean that the admins should take their own advice and go touch grass for a bit, because this is by far the dumbest struggle session this site has had and that's saying something.

again, posting here after posting in the other thread because i need to get words out, even if they're not taken up

one of the founding principles, and one of the most important things that makes this site something I return to often, is the fact that we are willing to take each other in good faith. Absolutely there are times when people are posting dripping in irony, but for the most part I think this is something we've done well, and something we've managed to maintain over the years since this site launched. That said, the jacketing that keeps happening, and especially what took place yesterday in regards to 'cishet white vibes', needs to stop. We can change the rules all we want, we can struggle and struggle over and over again but until the leadership team here internalises this, the issue is never going to go away. It is clear that there is some level of contempt for the userbase, even if it's not framed as such. Even if we meme about it, the underlying culture of the leadership team seems to allow for this contempt to fester, and it's most clear when the team throws aside any nuance and understanding of the users here in favour of casting swathes of us as 'white' or 'cishet', so that sweeping decisions can be made about us. I don't know how you weed this out, I just recognise it as the seed that it is.

As a trans woman, as a Person of Colour, this is one of the few sane places online. Ultimately, I don't care about the tanks closing, even if I want them around. I don't even really care that we have struggles every now and then, but I admit I say that as a regular user and not a mod or admin. I'm not about to leave this site, I don't have elsewhere to go, but that is precisely why things like this concern me. I understand the effort and everything needed to run a site, let alone a site like this one, so I understand slip ups and miscommunication. I'm not about to call for the abolishment of the system, but some level of self diagnosis of the problem and consequences thereafter feels like the only good way forward here.