this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2025
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The government targeted disabled people from some of the poorest communities in the country, who McNamara referred to as, "the subterranean poor."

Many of those drafted were illiterate, they had to be taught to tie their shoes, and they didn't know things like who the president was, even as they were being sent to kill and die on his orders for an imperialist war, for reasons they could not understand.

A book called McNamera's Folly records some stories of those recruited in the program. One thought a nickel was worth more than a dime, because it was bigger. One of them failed to attend training and was sentenced to four years of labor in prison, and the sergeant asked if anyone "wanted to join them in the stockade." Another conscript didn't know what the word "stockade" meant and thought it meant going home, so he said yes - he received the same sentence.

If you can believe it, this was actually sold to the public as a "progressive" program, as part of Johnson's "War on Poverty." The claim was that this would be a way to help the conscripts learn useful skills. in reality, a study by the DoD itself found:

Comparisons between Project 100,000 participants and their non-veteran peers showed that, in terms of employment status, educational achievement, and income, non-veterans appeared better off. Veterans were more likely to be unemployed and to have a significantly lower level of education. Income differences ranged from $5,000 [to] $7,000 in favor of non-veterans. Veterans were more likely to have been divorced.

Obviously.

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[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 97 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (6 children)

I know this sounds cartoonishly evil, but please consider how the unemployment rate went down drastically within this subpopulation.

Now about my newest idea 'tunnel-sized toddlers with claymore mines'

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 31 points 2 weeks ago

Maybe the real problem was that there weren't enough civilian jobs that could make use of the valuable skills they were taught, like, "how to get shoved into the line of fire while the rest of us run away."

[–] Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago

It's a modest proposal

[–] khepri@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah this is the kind of shit you literally couldn't put into a fictional movie because viewers would not buy that a first-world democracy would do that to their citizens. You'd need an intentionally over-the-top cartoonishly evil fictional entity like Vault-Tec to even approach a "Moron Corps" scenario in fiction...

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 8 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

[off topic?]

I'll take this opportunity to tout a favorite graphic novel.

Big Man Plans.' A slightly off kilter officer recruits a 4-F little person to be a tunnel rat in Vietnam. Then it gets kinda weird...

https://globalcomix.com/c/big-man-plans

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 87 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This is part of what Forrest Gump was about. Think Forrest and Bubba would have made it to boot in the first place?

[–] khepri@lemmy.world 56 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Holy crap this is what Forrest Gump was about I never realized...

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

To be fair, it's about other things, too. Like Jenny's character's arc had nothing to do with that part.

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Well, it shows the state of the country regarding protesting the war in Vietnam, Black Panthers and such, although we don’t get to hear what he says about the war at the National Mall before he spots her running out.

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[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes, it was based on 'McNamara's Morons' as people said. And to be fair to the book, it does a better job of making Forrest Gump more self aware, he does in fact grasp that he's being exploited and underpaid and under trained, used for the most deadly jobs and mocked for it.

[–] Wigglesworth@retrolemmy.com 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
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[–] bassomitron@lemmy.world 66 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

McNamara was truly one of the most cold-blooded sociopaths in US history.

[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

"Just need a few more million tons of bombs bro. Then the NVA will finally realize that WE'RE the good guys bro."

-- Robert McNamara (Probably)

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The Fog of War is a damn good documentary. I watched it in a college class about the Vietnam War, and that class absolutely radicalized me. There was zero reason for the US to be there.

[–] bassomitron@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

It is indeed a great documentary. Ironically, McNamara happily agreed to be interviewed for it. I haven't seen it in over 20 years, but I just remembered being absolutely repulsed at how completely unfeeling the dude was about everything.

[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

Along with Kissinger and Nixon.

[–] Scuzzm0nkey@lemmy.world 50 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I understand the program and/or participants were pejoratively referred to as "McNamera's Morons". They had an absolutely dismal survival rate for what I imagine are super obvious reasons. Beyond fucked up and still somehow not in the top 5 of fucked up shit our government and/or military has done to our own citizens.

This is why Forrest and Bubba went to Nam, and why Lt. Dan was not super thrilled to have them in his squad.

[–] khepri@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

And don't forget Gomer Pyle.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 28 points 2 weeks ago

promoted as a response to President Lyndon B. Johnson's war on poverty

US war on the poor has been consistently successful.

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 19 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Part of me really thinks that our entry into Vietnam was partly because there wasn't enough jobs for all the baby boomers that were coming of age, and they needed to cull the numbers a bit.

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 64 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The reality is worse.

The US was almost totally focused on the Soviet threat after WW2. The US wanted France as a strong ally, so the French coerced the Americans to pick up the torch in Vietnam and help the South beat the North. Eisenhower and Kennedy gave the South 'military advisors' but didn't want to fully commit. Then LBJ became President.

Johnson believed that he could win the War with a massive buildup. His plan backfired, and the US went from having a small force committed to a large force stuck in a quagmire. Johnson didn't want to raise taxes for the War, so he printed money, which lead to inflation.

Nixon got elected as a 'peace candidate.' He then doubled down on LBJ's policies of a big War paid for with paper money. Nixon knew the War was unwinnable; he planned on keeping it going until 1976 when he was out of office.

The inflationary spending was starting to hurt the US economy when the OPEC Oil Embargo hit. That made everything in the US much more expensive. It was so bad under Ford that families that used to be able to do well with one job needed Mom to get a job too.

Jimmy Carter's man, Paul Volker, won the war on inflation, but people only saw results after Carter was out. Reagan got the credit for Volker's plan, but Reagan had his own inflationary program ready to go.

In 1964, before the War ramped up, 'middle class' was one Union job supporting a family of four with enough money to send the kids to college and have some luxuries. In those days, $1 million was a vast fortune. By 1993, when George Bush Sr. was done, 'middle class' was two incomes to keep a household going. In 1993, $1 million was what a rich guy paid for a party.

[–] mech@feddit.org 15 points 2 weeks ago

It was so bad under Ford that families that used to be able to do well with one job needed Mom to get a job too.

Oh boy, am I glad those days are in the past....

[–] IWW4@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The basic flaw of you thinking is that there was ever a “reason” the US entered that war.

There wasn’t one. There was just lots of justifications for why te US had to stay in it.

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Please don't use the "US is evil" argument to justify not knowing history.

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[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The MAGA crowd meets the conscription criteria and they're ready for the jungles in Venezuela.

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 10 points 2 weeks ago

The people of Venezuela do not deserve that.

[–] Jordan117@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)
[–] modus@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

"Each soldier was then issued an AR-15 rifle, three clips of NATO 7.62 mm rounds... "

That's one of my favorite Onion articles and I never noticed this detail.

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[–] barnaclebutt@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

No because its poor people and they aren’t considered humans to anybody in the upper class.

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[–] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think Poutine has been doing this since 2022 too!

[–] FireWire400@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I condemn these serious allegations against Poutine

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

And remember boys and girls, these are the actions of good Christian people, which tells you a lot about what Christianity is about. Just to be clear, this isn't exceptionally bad behavior for Christians, this is pretty much the standard, I'd expect no less from them.

Fuck ALL religions, all religions are evil and all religions should be prohibited as it's all just an excuse to be an asshole and yet appear pious. Fuck it all

[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 11 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Vietnam was about oil, do not blame religion they knew what they were doing. It's always class warfare.

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[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Lmao. The article says nothing about religion. Do do you just like proselytizing? You should consider joining a church if you have that level of fanaticism

[–] khepri@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

Maybe he's referring to the fact that McNamara, the architect of this and all-around terrible person, was an Elder in his Presbyterian church during the time he was also conceiving and running this program. IDK, that's the first direct connection I could find. That, and a lot of this was under Kennedy, who was famously and publicly and proudly the first Catholic president. So I agree it's not a great look for Kennedy in terms of his Catholicism being a major part of his identity, to have allowed his SecDef to run this program on "the least among us" if you will.

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[–] DaMonsterKnees@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

There was Cleveland, he was from Detroit...

Great share, thanks!

[–] ThePantser@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I once worked with a guy named Toledo who was from Flint, MI

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[–] Sagan_Wept@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's what the movie Full Metal Jacket was half about

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Wut. Which character had a mental disorder before being sent to the military in that movie?

[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I encourage you all to read "the plutonium files" if you'd like to read about even more fucked up shit the US govt has done.

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