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“I’ve looked into this, and it’s actually been widely debunked. Would you be open to reading a source I trust?”
What an ignorant fucking thing to suggest. Seriously why are they just lying to us in this article? Nobody who has ever dealt with Maga is dumb enough to think that works. All of us who have know exactly what the response is: "fake news, fake video, etc..."
What a croc of shit.
not to mention dealing with the gish gallop of how these arguments go.
What's the source that would debunk that my friends wife's cousins co-worker saw a bunch of trans people beating up a woman in a bathroom because she wasn't trans enough and the liberal woke media won't report it because they're controlled by Jewish billionaires?
Always others having to cowtow to Maga. Always others having to cowtow to conservatives. Never the other direction.
So yeah, fuck that.
fuck 'em, don't invite 'em. worked for us.
I’m not speaking to those pieces of shit.
yeah the entire concept for this article barely worked in 2017. Now?
you think they're getting invited at all? pfft
Looking at the comments, I can't imagine why someone would ignore you all.
I cut ties with my maga father the day after Election Day last year.
Same here with my MAGA parents.
The only way to defeat these assholes is to socially isolate them.
I'd argue its a moral obligation to socially isolate these fools wherever and whenever possible. If they actually loved you, they wouldn't have voted away your future
Sounds peaceful
All my kids are grown and off on their own this year. So it will be me, my wife, and our dogs and cats. Very peaceful.
Ohhh yeah. I'm down to one close relative (the rest have died in the past 12 years - it's been a dozen years of shit, actually) and husband and I are having our first non-family filled Christmas. Tomorrow, I'm gonna get up and throw a roast in the slow cooker, give husband his gifts and chill and play video games. Maybe even nap in the afternoon.
From the first year I shacked up with the boyfriend, (whom I eventually married) we travelled to my aunts, uncles and grandparents homes each and every year. The trifecta was one year we had Thanksgiving dinner at in-laws at noon sharp, at 2:30 we were on our way to grandmother's in Connecticut for dinner at 5, then at 7:30 we drove up to Maine for 10:30 pm Thanksgiving dinner with auntie (they were the night owl side of the family) in southern Maine.
It was amazing and exhausting and one of the most culinary diverse Thanksgivings I've had.
Overcooked dry turkey at in-laws, prime rib at grandma's and turkey and pork golumkis at aunties.. Fun times.. but yeah.. Tonight is nice here just pecking away online with the radio in the background singing it's holiday songs..
It's glorious.
The one thing I'm glad of is that I'll never lose contact with any of my kids over politics unless they're the ones who turn crazy because compassion is the cornerstone of my parenting (with teaching them to respect their boundaries a strong second place).
You're probably not the kind of parent that has to worry about this, because those that do feel that obedience is the cornerstone of parenting.
Good deprogramming tricks but I'm over deprogramming, if they're still hopeless at this point its going to take more behavioral science know how than I can safely provide. Im a good shot though so I'll be prepared one way or another.
Seriously. The issue is that if someone is still mags after all that has happened then most people probably don't like them enough to bother with any of this shit. I was working to try in like 2018. Not anymore.
I mean yeah, but this approach presupposes a bunch of things that usually dont exist:
Additionally, its really hard to debate things with nutters because they're usually well versed in their special interest while I merely rely on the advice of experts. For example, an anti-vax person might reference various studies and research. I can assume they've been debunked or taken out of context, but I don't know those studies or any relevant research.
My favoured approach is to merely ask what evidence it would take to change their mind. In the majority of cases their answer is something that just isn't practically possible, or includes caveats that would allow them to disclaim such evidence if provided.
Something unfalsifyable is not science, that's faith. At least then you know there's no point debating them.
The article means well. But, after 10 years of Trump, a lot of families don’t even talk to each other anymore if there is a political divide. Mine doesn’t. Families are literally split on this.
Yeah I haven't talked to my sibling in several years now. When we did talk they'd always force it into some weird mind game trying to get me to say contradictory things then grill me on it, didn't matter what we started with. Communication went downhill because I just didn't want to have to be prepared for an unhinged debate any time we talked about anything. Finally stopped after I found out they are anti vax; now they're a transphobe too and well I'm trans. I'm not going to try and fix that bridge they can die scared of the world
From there, the person you’re speaking with will understand that you’re truly listening and trying to understand, which can help to build a respectful relationship that can allow for further dialogue.
It won't though, which is why I cut off ties to anyone in the MAGA cult.
My brother (UK so not MAGA thank fuck) is a conspiracy theorist.
I just ask him "why".
"Why do you believe the moon landing is fake?"
"Because the flag is flapping".
"Why would they build a soundstage with a breeze and not retake the footage"?
"What do you think chemtrails are?"
"They are the government trying to poison us".
"Why wouldn't they just put stuff in the water supply"?
And so on.
It's hard for someone to believe simultaneously in supreme government control when you continuously point out how incompetent they are.
He's voting Reform then?
How did you guess....
What a load of bullshit. You cannot win an argument with facts and fact checking, when you're talking to someone who only believe their feelings and poor sources.
I tried this many times, it doesn't work. All the fact checking sources I provide are considered false and left wing propaganda. The only source they trust is Fox / Facebook / racist neighbor / etc. If it's about science stuff, they know better than a professor in that field. They don't question their sources. They don't believe in facts and science, only in feelings. And their feelings were created by populist politicians, radical groups, fake news sites originating from Russia, etc. And when they have a feeling, there's no arguing with it anymore.
This goes for any cult member. And with cult I also mean the Christian churches, and any other religion. Anyone who blindly follows what is dictated to them by whoever they worship or follow.
I've seen a lot about cults. I think the only way to hopefully pull someone away from a cult is to isolate them from it, show the real world for a while, then talk about how their cult world is actually very far from normal and okay. This works only sometimes, some people get away from it, then to return a bit later. Or they fall for another cult.
But there's no arguing with someone who doesn't trust facts and doesn't use any form of logic.
I couldn't agree more. Way back when, I thought I was okay at discussing topics like public health, evolution, vaccines, and the like with the "low information voter" crowd. Then I went to university for the better part of a decade, became a Real Scientist™, then worked in research and public health.
The result? I am no better at discussing these topics with them. If anything I'm less effective as I'm now seen as part of the conspiracy or an overeducated blowhard, so they write me off even faster.
I can gently and politely correct the misinformation that comprises the core of their beliefs, complete with sources, but it doesn't matter one bit. Most of them aren't interested in truth so much as what makes them feel good about themselves and their place in the world. To be fair, I meet just as many liberals who similarly have many feelings-based opinions (Vaccines! Organic food! GMOs!), but much of the MAGA crowd actually makes ignorance as a core value a point of personal pride. It's fucking bizarre.
If forced to interact with some Maga, I just go full scorn and derisive dismissal. Follow up jokes about flat-earthers and the earth being the center of the solar system. Add in whatever ridiculous thing I can think of. I just keep it up until they don't want anything to do with me because I'm not buying what they are selling. I'm an asshole though, and I don't really care if some nutter likes me or not.
Nah, they can go fuck themselves.
Well, that, and cut the MAGA shitheads out of your will. Don't leave a penny to fascists.
I sort of feel the same emotion when asked to sympathize with someone I have fundamentally disregarded as a person. Like, if someone robs me, I don't want to hear about how they did it because they were bullied in middle school. I don't give a fuck first of all, and second of all...it's just not relevant. Dude did not rob me because he was bullied in middle school, he robbed me because he wanted my money or posessions...he's just lying because he's a shithead trying to exploit empathy he expects me to have in order to get away with said crime.
Maybe none of these people have Narcissistic Personality Disorder (a psychological illness which causes profound suffering to the affilicted in the form of self-distructive behavior such as eating disorders, substance use, or gambling usually in addition to acting like a douchebag to loved ones) or are in cults or are under any sort of mind control. Maybe they're just assholes. Your Trump supporting Uncle didn't make Trump happen. The manufactured consent makes things easier but the consent or lack of consent of an impovrished peasent population doesn't really make a difference. It can make things easier but I can't imagine it being much of a dealbreaker.
This article is such bullshit. I feel this pressure often, like I'm always being asked to empathize with people who are kicking me in the nuts.
I'm not trying to deprogram anyone. Fuck 'em. They can burn in the hell they voted for.
Fuck this article, I did this shit in 2014. They scream "Do your research!", "What about... !!!", or some other irrational justification. I'm out of fucks. These people lack empathy, they've chosen to leave social compact. It's their work to figure it out not mine.
“Do your research!”
Their patronizing bullshit always comes off as "you disagree with me, so you must be wrong." May I did look into the topic I'm discussing and just came to a different conclusion.
Yup. Like others have said, "I can cite sources", never goes anywhere. Even folks who are Leopard food still seem to have no regrets about their votes.
40 to 50% of American voters still think Trump is doing a good job despite what the experts are suggesting. I feel that this experts only serve some nefarious group who gaslight everyday people into trying to like some fachist relative … since 2016
It's around 41-42% right now but I think we can make it past 40 which is the level where impeachments and losing elections become possible.
Had to downvote for clickbait headline.
One thing, And OP ain't telling
Headline says 1 thing.
Article lists multiple things.
What a rip off.
The 1 thing was clicking the link for their corporate sponsors.
The best way to talk to MAGA relatives... Don't.
The only way this will ever stop is for a huge muzzle to be put on mass misinformation sources and the discourse to be purified from the top down. Your well intentioned interaction over Christmas ham is not going to change anyone's mind.
You can't change minds over Christmas. You plant seeds of doubt, and then the Epstein files get released and the doubt sprouts. You never know what breaks the camels. Back.
My nephew got a smart globe for Christmas where you tap a stylus on the globe and it talk about that place.
I told my mother to tap Israel.
Hehehe
I just let the MAGA in-law talk at me for a while, then move on.
The article appears to list multiple things.