this post was submitted on 16 May 2026
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philosophy

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Other philosophy communities have only interpreted the world in various ways. The point, however, is to change it. [ x ]

"I thunk it so I dunk it." - Descartes

Short Attention Span Reading Group: summary, list of previous discussions, schedule

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This is the smartest meme I've ever seen. The Tao that can be known is not the Tao. "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!" (hexbear.net)
submitted 5 days ago by xijinpingist@hexbear.net to c/philosophy@hexbear.net
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Who knew I was a Taoist all along? I thought I was a nihilist. Not the kind with black turtlenecks but another kind. I've always been a bit interested in Dao/Taoism but never studied. All of the western weirdos who were into Eastern philosophy scared me off. I didn't want to turn into one of them like Steve Jobs or that hippy book about motorcycle maintenance. I believe in living in the moment and always have. Back when I was first studying Chinese I learned all the words for moving around: directions, street signs and so on because those are immediately useful. A lot of them had the character dao in them somewhere, like dadao, boulevard or daoda, arrive.

One day, I step into the vestibule of some random temple and there is a two-story high scroll of the character 到.

As I craned my neck to see the top, I said, "ooooh, I get it! Dao! The way!"

Upon seeing this, I was enlightened.

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[–] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 31 points 4 days ago (1 children)

people at work are always like, "do you have any plans for this weekend?"

as an uncarved block,
my potential is infinite.
my silence is auspicious.
the vinegar is sweet.

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 24 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Funny thing about weekends when you're unemployed: They don't quite mean so much, except you get to hang out with all your working friends.

--Primus, Spaghetti Western

[–] Tabitha@hexbear.net 7 points 4 days ago

Weekends??? That's when restaurants charge more for lunch!!!

[–] happybadger@hexbear.net 32 points 4 days ago

"Live, laugh, love" - John Tao, inventor of Taoism

[–] Krem@hexbear.net 16 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Daoism is wacky and I like it.

I also like the western "Daoism" which is only about "going with the flow" "be like water" "wu wei" and all that. I say "western" because while these things are some of the foundations of actual daoism, the western version just stops there and imagines that it's just a "whoah, brah, it's all chill, and , like the universe"

actual daoism, as it's practiced in east asia, is intense. it's weird. it's about hell and the underworld. it's about death. it's about heaven or multiple heavens. it's about one or more earths. it's about thousands of gods and spirits. there are intense rituals. there is prayer. there is possession. there is exorcism. there are alchemical potions. there are martial arts that are not about martial arts. it's weird and awesome and I like it.

a two-story high scroll of the character 到

this is pretty funny halal

[–] Nacarbac@hexbear.net 20 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I remember reading a few pieces where the whichever sage is there will almost blatantly turn to the reader and say "you're not gonna get it here nerd, go look at the people outside touching grass". And then a thousand years of commentaries are kinda like "yeah, go outside", "when the Sage says to go outside, it means you should drop this book", and "I quite like bird watching".

You might still like them though, they can be quite funny. No need to study or make notes or whatever, just read a couple casually.

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 15 points 4 days ago

I never trust translations, sadly. Not since I saw two Harvard scholars of Chinese sing a song about how to remember the order of dynasties and they had the worst pronunciation ever. Super cringe. Knee how? Because speaking the language is beneath them.
That's in the textbooks, too. They write them. Because obviously the only reason to learn is go go all the way to classical Chinese so you can read Tang dynasty poetry and Mencius in the original. I got all the way to the end of Book 1 of a well-regarded series and couldn't say, "where's the bathroom?" When I complained about this I was told off in a contemptuous tone, "buy a phrasebook, loser."

[–] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 13 points 4 days ago (2 children)

A lot of the white guys who get really into eastern philosophy do it because they think it will make them more powerful, that it is some kind of magical secret that mysterious oriental monks take lifetimes to master, but their superior white boy abilities means they can become an expert after reading the wikipedia page on it and will unlock the magical secret that will allow them to become super rich and powerful.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago

A white man walks around the world, succeeding at everything without even trying: "is this the divine mandate of heaven? Is this the sound of one hand clapping?"

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago

In my experience it's people who don't actually care about the philosophy but want to say that they are, to get as far away as possible from anything western and say, "look at me, I'm so fucking cool because I embrace The Other!" Poseurs.

[–] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 16 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Wuwei wins.

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 10 points 5 days ago

Totality!

[–] libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I have the daodejing in newnorwegian, and it is a very interesting read.

be like water

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 12 points 4 days ago (2 children)

A bowl is most useful when it is empty. But most useless.
That's what I always disliked about Eastern philosophy, how it doesn't seem to ever actually do anything and tries to think up the most clever tricks of language instead. I caught a podcast on Confucianism and this is the Lawful Neutral ethos I've been looking for. It's one that must be studied, though. The Confucian scholar is all about studying. China is what a country looks like after the brainy nerds won. Not the creepy kind of incel nerd, but the pre-computer nerd kind of nerd.

[–] theturtlemoves@hexbear.net 12 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

That's what I always disliked about Eastern philosophy, how it doesn't seem to ever actually do anything and tries to think up the most clever tricks of language instead.

I actually like Chinese philosophy, particularly Confucianism, because of how materialistic it is. It's about running a state and keeping people from killing each other, while a lot of Greek philosophy is about the nature of the self yada yada.

The development of the various schools, and their support bases, is also interesting from a historical materialist perspective. You have the Confucians (nerds), who look at a world in war and destruction, and say 'this suffering is because of lack of knowledge. If we educate everyone to follow rules, respect their superiors and protect those below them, there will be peace. So we must fund education and research, and thoroughly educate emperors and officers.'

Then the Mohists, who come from the working classes, say 'have you seen these snobs? They exploit us all the time and would start a war if it benefits them, since it'll be us dying for them. So we need to train weaker groups to resist the strong, and do away with useless luxuries like rituals and elaborate musical performances'.

The Legalists (civil servants) attack the Confucians from another angle, pointing out that statecraft is not as black and white as the Confucians think, and that the only quality on which a public servant should be judged is the ability to get things done. 'It does not matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.'

Finally you have the Taoists, who were originally mystics, but whose teaching that government should interfere as little as possible won them the support of the merchants. Absolutely fascinating how each class came up with its own philosophical tradition according to its material interests.

[–] libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It doesnt do anything? Its a foundation of chinese society, how does that equate to nothing? Yin yang, five elements, taiji chuan, chinese medicine to mention some.

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

How does fire count? It's not an element, it's a reaction

[–] libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Ah, I see. You are a materialist.

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Actually, I am a taxonomist.

"The Beginning of Wisdom is Calling Things by Their Right Names"

-- Confucius

[–] libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I can say that the quote resonates with me in the sense that I do believe that we should challenge the words we are using in our everyday life, and potentially swap them out.

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

That is straight-up Derrida thinking.

"There's glory for you!"

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory'," Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't - till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you'!" "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more or less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be Master - that's all."

-- Alice in Wonderland

[–] libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 days ago

I havent read Derrida, but to clearify Im very fond of looking into the etymology of words to understand the underlying images of the words.

For instance the word "order" in the expression "in order to find x, we need to..." comes from latin "ordinem" meaning "rank, row, line, series, pattern and more".

It is a word that I associate with authority because it comes from the very hierarchical roman empire, and it is typically used in context of keeping people subordinated. Authority can be justified, but we should not normalize it through language, so therefore I like to weed it out.

In its place I plant the word "fern" which is a symbol of the infinitely shaped, infinitely structured. This word has the benefit of moving our attention towards nature, makes us wonder about the infinite, and removes the authority element of the word.

A common feedback I get is; "If you use words nobody has heard of, nobody is going to understand you". But the context often reveal the meaning of a word as long as you use the word with flow.

I like to call this process relighting. To unlight one word and enlight another in fern to loken the language.

[–] libre_warrior@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago

I'll look into it.

[–] Enjoyer_of_Games@hexbear.net 4 points 4 days ago

on hexbear? not likely

[–] Keld@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago

I dislike how much of taoist philosophy is just monarchist libertarianism

[–] LaughingLion@hexbear.net 8 points 4 days ago

not voting is actually wuwei and if you criticize me for it you are racist

[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

https://hexbear.net/comment/7037635 i've been saying this

道 可 道 非 常 道

名 可 名 非 常 名

無 名 天 地 之 始

有 名 萬 物 之 母

故 常 無 欲 以 觀 其 妙

常 有 欲 以 觀 其 徼

此 兩 者 同 出 而 異 名

同 謂 之 玄

玄 之 又 玄

眾 妙 之 門

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Oh come on man, if you're going to write, write but don't copy/paste. This is mixed traditional and simplified.

[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/49965/49965-h/49965-h.htm

blame this guy then, i don't have anything set up to type characters easily on a desktop computer and this is the most easily accessible web 1.0 dao de jing i found. sans-shrug

[–] xijinpingist@hexbear.net 9 points 4 days ago

Oh, I thought that was classical Chinese. The too many 之 gives it away.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 4 days ago

Doesnt use single quotes, only double