this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2026
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Fuck AI

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Idk, it might seem obvious, but I noticed something interesting when I was thinking about the "it's not x, it's y". Like a friend told me some time ago, "it looks like infomercials, it's like it's trying to sell you something".

When someone says something like that, what comes to mind? My first thought is always "but I didn't think, say or reason that it would be x, nor you". Why cite a different thing before the real argument before the argument then?

To me this just seems some way to add "weight" to an argument, like a high school essay, taking attention out of the real argument, stylistically giving the illusion of strength. It looks like and acts like the high school essay "padding" that we all know and used (or at least people used at my school) "that guy was not important, he was essential", "the trouser gave the world one of the most important and necessary inventions", "the onion is one of the most notorious newspapers in existence, being cited in nature and by the bible itself".

I'm giving some bullshit texts with no meaning examples, but just substituting this with the "guy" we needed to talk about in 4 pages would add shit up and give a little bit of the semblance of weight to the text.

Now looking at any Claude or ChatGPT text, this is exactly the thing that's happening, a high schooler is padding their essay with things saying that "yeah, my argument is very strong, because it's not x, it's y", and people are falling for it. Every topic on the signs of LLM wikipedia page is this.

Idk, but this seems to be the same case of the "warmth" that bootlicking LLMs have, the person looking at the screen gets manipulated (by the companies that train the LLMs to act this way) and likes it, even if not directly or knowingly.

Imagine what could be done with this kind of "fallacies"? Just changing peoples mind on topics they want to be changed? Instead of refusing to say anything, the LLM trainers could just train certain argument tactics and try to change peoples mind, if people is falling for the bullshit padding, why not tactically engineer peoples opinions?

If it's not doing this already.

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[–] one_old_coder@piefed.social 1 points 41 minutes ago* (last edited 16 minutes ago)

Something weird that I noticed about that: LLMs are doing exactly the same thing in French. "It's not, it's" becomes "ce n'est pas, mais c'est" (in English: "it is not, but it is")

It's kinda improbable that the same sentence would happen in both languages, but there it is.

[–] JustTesting@lemmy.hogru.ch 3 points 4 days ago

My personal pet peeve is everything having a 'why it matters' section. Not everything needs to matter, it can just be fun. I already clicked the link, no need to convince me. Also it's often just restating the opening paragraph. And it makes everything sound like a marketing piece.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

That "it’s not x, it’s y" - thing is really weird. I think it's even discouraged to talk like that for humans, as it frequently gets people confused. And if the audience is not paying attention 100% they might as well memorize X instead of Y. It's also mostly unnecessary. If something is Y, just say so. (There's a few limited use-cases. Like when debunking proper myths. Or in an Ikea instruction leaflet with the wrong screw crossed out and the correct one depicted next to it. And other textbook examples like that. But it shouldn't be a normal speech pattern, by any means.)

I had ChatGPT do other weird things. I tried writing Python code with ChatGPT. And on more than one occasion it gave me a full screen of text, or computer code... Which I read and copy-pasted... Just to scroll down and find out it goes on to say ChatGPT does NOT recommend doing it that way, and instead do...

And that really made me feel mocked. Why waste 3mins of my life then, by making me read and copy-paste the wrong "solution"? I don't know why that is, though. Maybe it came to some "realization" while writing it, and since it's writing left to right, it can't make corrections. So it'll decide to weasel itself out and portray it as some "lesson" in what not to do.

Feels somehow like the "it’s not x, it’s y". Just with the "not" coming after explaining X. And everything is stretched out over 5 pages.

Or maybe it'a just because they made it prefer longer answers, or give several options/perspectives... And adding wrong ones contributes to length.

[–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago

I'm assuming the plan is to eventually charge by output token, which means that longer output would be more lucrative. They're just training model and user to produce and get used to long-winded responses so it's not as transparent.

[–] stellargmite@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

The anthropomorphism itself goes with this also.

[–] biggerbogboy@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 days ago

Oh and how they’re occasionally like “you’re not imagining things, …”, like bro, I just told you that, you don’t need to be condescending about it.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

A core training principle in any LLM is to be helpful. This tell is a creative way to self-validate a claim, even if it is weak. A common goal that is difficult to do is to retrain an LLM to prioritize being factually accurate vs. always finding some answer that makes the user happy. The reward system for that behavior is very deep and hard to break. AI could have been... rather was in the ANI forms, a decent tool until someone figured out how to make profit from hype, and now the damage is done.

[–] magnetichuman@fedia.io 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Its really hard to train an AI to be factually accurate. What you end up training is an AI that does its best to appear to be factually accurate.
Robert Miles has a great video here on the subject: https://youtu.be/w65p_IIp6JY

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Robert Miles is the go-to for the issues of AI. Haven't seen anything from him lately.

[–] magnetichuman@fedia.io 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)
[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 1 points 46 minutes ago

Yeah, noticed that.

[–] potatoguy@mbin.potato-guy.space 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

a decent tool until someone figured out how to make profit from hype

100% agree.

Sometimes I think if there's any way to make a "most correct" LLM, if it's even possible. It seems those don't make money hahaha.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 1 points 5 days ago

Seems that's usually the case. The original internet and world wide web wasn't a big money maker in its design, but boy that changed once corporations took over and people became the product.

[–] DGen@piefed.zip 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Training material is one Thing. Setting Up Something with the LLM the other.

You gotta Set guardrails and logics especially when it becomes Something more detailed. In the right Hands, absolutely fine. But if you want to manipulate or whatever..yeah. They will do for the sake of money in the one or the other way.

[–] potatoguy@mbin.potato-guy.space 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think on changing people's mind, it could be on the training, without invoking anything specifically, just the fallacies and phraseologies.

Kinda vocabulary for arguments.

[–] DGen@piefed.zip 0 points 5 days ago

Yes and no. Usually you train a LLM "unlabeled". So it has to figure Out stuff alone.

When request are Made you can set up how the LLM will determine the probablity of answers. You can set how narrow this will be and even define a Lot, how a prompt or answer should look like, by giving it examples.

LLM can fail on simple math tasks if they haven't gotten any logic. Even the results can be different, per prompt.

That likelyhood "TEMP" and samples for logic can be manipulated by human, to make the AI respond to users in a desired way. Ofc thats a Lot of Work for a General AI like ChatGPT. But now money has to be Made and that has been the plan all along. So the AI is and will be very appealing to their Users.