Ask Lemmy

Sorry for the meta, but why is everyone downvoting what appears to be a sincere question coming from someone in a culture where religion predominates?

I agree with most of the replies here, but don't understand the downvotes to asking the question.

With logic and rational thinking instead of fear and magical thinking.

without any explanations about the world or comforts to be held

Neither of these require religion.

are you saying “god” is a good explanation for the world?

why not tell them the truth? we dont know everything. when we die, unexplainable. thats literally just fact. you might have spiralled but it sounds like youre religious. so that isnt surprising.

But telling them about a god and eternal hellfire if you sin? thats the worst lie you could say

Maybe you grew up with so much anxiety due to religion itself? I'm the opposite, I live in an area which has almost no religious people and I feel everybody is very calm and friendly. Maybe the idea of eternal hell or heaven might be triggering that unconsciously in you

...the idea of being raised as child without any explanations about the world or comforts to be held, scares me.

Your understanding of atheism is uhh, questionable.

To answer this question, the world was explained through science. Carl Sagan was the shit back then. Comforts are more tangible things like family or food rather than an imaginary "after".

As somebody who grew up without religion: I never really cared about all the metaphysical stuff. I was always interested in learning new things and wanted to understand how the world works. Yet that stuff never even brushed my mind to my knowledge. Maybe I asked my parents when I was smaller which I can't remember anymore, but I definitely didn't get anxiety over it. I accepted what I saw with my own eyes, that was enough for me. I don't need something else besides this world.

And regarding their child converting: a cousins child is raised atheist and in elementary school got interested in Christianity since most of their class mates went to church. So the child asked the parents, they said: innour opinion there is nothing, but if you are interested, feel free to go to church to learn about their explanation. So that's what they did and last I met the child, they weren't a bible thumbed but still went to their religion class, so the result is not yet in.

I have found that children don’t need lies to comfort them. By nature, children are curious and crave understanding. It’s important for parents to respect that and equip them both with what we already know, and the skills to keep exploring. Engage with them, help them understand the questions, feed their innate sense of wonder. Eventually they’ll teach you a thing or two.

I find no comfort in implausible lies, and I feel a need to help my kids avoid that discomfort. I also want them to have agency in life, so they need to understand how such lies are used by society to try and control them.

There is actually no need to talk to children about gods. Those questions you imply only religion could answers usually don't pop up in a childrens world except when brought in from external sources.

Sounds like you have difficulties of your own that you may want work on before concerning yourself with others.

You can't help another sailboat if your own boat isn't stable.

I highly recommend some Cognitive Behavioural Therapy - recognizing your own anxiety shows you at least have that awareness. Learning to reframe it will go a long way.

Going through life "as an anxious person" as if that's unchangeable, is no way to live.

What would I tell a kid they must adore a guy who would burn entire cities and shit? I'd rather teach the kid tolerance.

"the idea of being raised as child without any explanations about the world or comforts to be held, scares me."

What a strange thing to say. What makes you think atheists do this? I tell my children what we know about the world, and what we don't yet know. No need to make up anything short of Santa and the Tooth Fairy, but they grow out of this fast.

"Also, on the opposite of the spectrum, what happens when your child converts(?)"

I can only speak for myself, not atheists, but my kids are encouraged to make up their own minds. I take every opportunity to discuss religion and my kids even go to a catholic school. I consider it essential to understand history art and culture.

That said, they are very comfortable with atheism and they don't find any of religion comforting, quite the opposite. It's disturbing to them.

The joy of not knowing is discovery. I'd rather be told the truth that we don't know, rather than being lied to in certainty.

(Raised Catholic)

Interesting, raised with the idea of eternal existence was a terror to me. Obviously eternal hell was an awful idea, but even an eternity in heaven too. Thinking of never-ending subservience to a god that rained down horrors and demanded his followers do terrible things, it didn't make me feel any better when I was told my imperfect human brain couldn't comprehend the actions of a "perfect" deity. So getting to heaven meant my mind would have to so fundamentally change to be happy with this god that I would no longer be Me. That was the existential horror to me and it was a great relief to deconstruct in my teens years.

One of the criticisms of being raised in a specific faith is that the children do not choose their faith, they are already in it.

So being raised by an atheist and then choosing a religion would carry more weight and meaning because it was a conscious decision made deliberately by that person.

I just never told them any of those fairy tales. Occasionally, they would ask about something that Grandma taught them at her church, and I would usually say "Well, some people believe that.." and tell them what the mythology is. I wouldn't argue with it, or ridicule it, but if they asked about my opinion on it, I would explain to them why I didn't believe it.

I'd have no problem with them deciding to join a church, as long as it wasn't an especially dangerous cult.

When you say "without any explanations of the world", I think you misunderstand.

There are plenty of explanations that don't involve God.

For example... years ago I worked in a bookstore, this was around when Twister was out, dad came in with his son who was desperately afraid of tornadoes, specifically, if an F5 could destroy a town, he was convinced the big red spot on Jupiter was like an F1,000,000 and was coming to get him.

Dad was looking for books to talk him down.

Now, someone steeped in religion would have gone down the road of God this, God that, chosen people, etc. etc. etc.

So I sat the kid down...

"OK, so at a basic level, what is a tornado?"

"Wind?"

"Right! Really fast wind, wind in a hurry. And what is wind made out of?"

"...?"

"Well, it's made of air, right? Look, you're breathing some right now! It's just not going fast."

"OK..."

"Well, there's no air in space, right? So there's no way for the spot on Jupiter to get off Jupiter."

‼️

"But what if it could?"

"Well, you know gravity, right? Makes things fall down? Gravity is stronger on Jupiter. Hang on, I think we have it in a book...

Yeah, here you go, 2.5 times stronger than Earth. Let's say you weigh 100 pounds, you would weigh 250 pounds on Jupiter!

So, no air in space, and everything on Jupiter is heavier, way harder to leave."

Dad was thrilled that his kid wasn't having a perpetual anxiety attack.

Yeah, yeah, I know, the spot is technically hydrogen and helium and not air, but explain like I'm five, right?

A lot of the perceived challenges comes from atheism being a battleground of culture war bullshit in the US. War on Christmas and such vomit.

In reality, kids being raised without indoctrination are fine. They tend to form some beliefs. Some get really deeply christian, and it's not even something to argue about in countries where we aren't constantly being told we should be in conflict about it or reminded how stupid and/or evil the "others" are.

Speaking from experience of christian parents, atheist self, one christian child. We are just... fine about it.

I was raised atheist and I still am as an adult. Accepting the concept of death is just part of growing up, I guess. It's not as big of a deal as it sounds like it would be. I think it keeps me more grounded, actually, but it really doesn't gave a profound effect on my daily life and it never did. Believers who fuss over the idea or the difference seem kinda immature to me.

I think that if my son were to join a religion some day, my reaction would depend a lot on which religion. I think they're all factually incorrect, but only some sects are morally wrong. If he joined the Unitarians, he could probably drag me to church occasionally, but if he joined a sect that made him condemn me for my beliefs, it would become difficult to stay close to him. That would hurt a lot.

I was raised by athiests, but neither parent gave any indication that they were and let me make my own opinions and decisions.

In fact, when I was young I actually went to church due to there being a free minibus, along with a youth club for any children.

It was around the age where I realised the tooth fairy and Santa Claus wasn’t real, that I came to my senses and realised that magic sky gods, bible magic etc was a load of crap as well

I explain plenty about the world and provide a lot of comforts for my child. I don’t need a god to do this for me.

It can be a comfort to believe nothing exists beyond this living realm. That our actions and our lives are what we make of them in the here and now.

My kid has very little questions of a sky daddy who watches our every move. It doesn’t bring him comfort to be watched for any little transgression to be held against him. He is content to be a good and kind person because that is who he wants to be and how he wants to be treated.

without any explanations about the world or comforts to be held

Says who? There are plenty of explanations. Gravity. Chemistry. Biology. Physics. There are tons of explanations of things.

Being told that there is nothing after death or that no one really knows, would have send me spiraling.

I don’t find the prospect of an afterlife comforting. We are supposed to end. That's what gives our brief time scope and meaning. I'm 51. Already I can only remember highlights of my childhood. What would even exist of me after 300 years? 1000? 1 million? I only have a short time to leave this world a better place than I found, which makes that time and those efforts precious. If I lasted a billion years why bother? None of any of this matters in the context of infinite time.

i cant imagine there being no resentment or conflicted feeling

Why? I mean I might feel like I'd let my kids down if they needed a religion, but I wouldn't resent it. I don't own them. They have and will make choices I don't agree with. That's why I wanted children. They are my continuation after death. The lessons I teach them about life and how to approach it and how to be good people are the thing that will outlive me. And through their relationships my influence on this world endures long after my name is forgotten. But they will be their own people and I wouldn't want it any other way.

They raise them like anyone else does, by making decisions based on their own ethical, moral, practical frameworks.

Coming from a world where the word itself is not even widely know, the idea of being raised as child without any explanations about the world or comforts to be held, scares me.

I would rather teach a child the truth about the world than try and feed them some bullshit about a magic man in the sky that wants them to worship him.

I always heard on the internet of people leaving their religion as teenagers when they were raised by their parents religiously.

Raising your kids religiously is effectively child abuse

But what of a child. I am a very anxious person(as i have come to accept). Being told that there is nothing after death or that no one really knows, would have send me spiraling.

I mean, it sounds like you needed psychiatric help, not religion.

That said, logically, people have done it(even if i can’t picture it) so i am also wondering how people/parents grappled with this and struggles they faced, what solutions they come up with

My parents didnt raise me religious, they said it was way easier than trying to be religious.

When I asked questions, they either found actual data, or they told me they didnt know the answer.

When I babysit for my cousins, I give them real answers when I can, or I tell them that I don't know the answer. Sometimes they ask really stupid questions, and that's fine, the key is to take the question seriously. Its also ok to briefly cover things that are too complex for them, when they ask why do people need to breath, I tell them that we need oxygen, I dont try to explain how cellular respiration works.

Also, on the opposite of the spectrum, what happens when your child converts(?) to a religion.

Statistically unlikely, but hypothetically possible. Generally, I don't really care what somebody believes privately, id be disappointed that they went for psuedoscience and hatred, but that's their decision.

I’m a devout atheist and my wife is Christian though she doesn’t ever practice it or go to church. When our son was born we came to the agreement that I would not steer him away from religion and she wouldn’t push it upon him until he was of a decent age to let him decide for himself. He’s 21 now and I still don’t know what he believes nor is it my business but I can tell you it worked for our family.

Don't fuck up or you'll burn in hell forever.

If you do it right you have to sing praises to God forever.

Feel comforted now?

I’m going to assume positive intent with this question.

You raise them the same way, teaching them right and wrong, critical thinking, and empathy, but without the invisible boogeyman always looking over their shoulder. Kids are smart, but the conversation needs to meet them at their level. And it’s ok to admit you don’t know something and find out together. I don’t understand what you mean about “no explanations about the world or comforts to be had”. There’s plenty to learn and be comforted by.

If a rule being written in the bible/koran/torah/whatever is the only thing stopping you from doing something bad, you’re a bad person. You don’t need religion or promise of a reward to be a good person or to have a fulfilling life.

In my experience, people don’t usually convert to religion later in life except via a trauma, like an illness or sudden loss of a parent/child, or conversion for a marriage. This is why it’s important for the church to hook them young before kids have the critical thinking skills to question it. By the time they are old enough, many are indoctrinated to “have faith” which just means “ignore all evidence and don’t look into this further” and perpetuate that into the next generation. Many leave. I was one of those that was raised in the church and left in my teens.

As for what happens after death, no one knows until they get there. There is no authoritative source of information on this beyond what happens to the body. I personally believe there’s nothing after. But I would rather live as a good person for me, and pass that to my kids. If a good life isn’t good enough for whatever gods there may be afterwards, then I probably wouldn’t want to be there anyway.

Plus, eternity would suck, even in a heaven. You’ve got time to do absolutely everything you want to do, as many times as you want, and when you’re done, you still have eternity to go. You really looking forward to your hundred millionth time watching your favorite movie or eating your favorite food?

So, in the end, just be a good person for you and those around you. It’s really that easy. If you also want to be religious, go for it, but don’t ever make the mistake of thinking the two are linked traits. Celebrate the life you have, and live like there’s no tomorrow (or pot of gold at the end of the rainbow).

In the West, people who care for people of faith as they're dying report that they are the ones more frightened, as their time approaches. I would assume this also correlates whether you deity is vindictive or forgiving, but I really don't know.

There are a lot of cases where religious people have to teach kids about uncertainty and death even having religion to help. You ease them into the concept, answer questions as needed, and let them process it.

My experience was the same as it is now: of course I knew I'm gonna die or something but I barely ever thought about it let alone stressed over it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You could also just knowingly lie to them. Christians do that all the time with e.g. Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. IDK if I'd do that, but if you're fine with lying about Santa Claus (which often ends up being scary to children, too, especially when you have people pretend to be Santa), lying about an afterlife seems like a smaller issue.

I grew up in a nonreligious (nominally christian) household, this kind of thing was never an issue for me.