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Ah yes, the secret plot to assassinate Trump. Highly confidential, only known to officials with the top clearance. Good thing Israel found out and warned him.
You can tell they're serious about it because that's a rather large sign and I bet they had it specially made.
If it's from Israel then I'm sure it's true and they're not trying to manipulate trump into dancing and juggling for them yet again. /s
Every single party involved in this headline is so utterly untrustworthy that I don't know what to do with it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Israel is fabricating the intelligence to spur Trump towards annihilation
There we go again with the bothsidism bullshit
Yeah there is an element of that, but I don't think it's entirely controversial to say that it all gets old very quickly.
Critical thinking takes work and research, which is fine for a specific topic or when you're reading something with existing context like something historic... but keeping on top of something where all the belligerents are pushing out narrative on a daily basis becomes fucking soul-destroying to fact-check and evaluate.
I don't think this is a "both sides" fallacy. It's just being super fed up of the constant shitslinging and media manipulation.
It is alwqys a bothside fallacy when you you equate the agressed and aggresor
Remind me again which of Israel, Iran and the US are aggressor and agressed ?
Seems to me both terms apply to all 3, at which point OP seems to me to be utterly correct. All 3 are bad.
I would care less if they werent holding the world economy to ransom
Israel and the usa stsrted the war they are the agressor, iran did not start the war they are the agressed. Your bullshit rhetoric is like talking sbout how france was bad in thr colonies thry colonized when talking anout nazi germany occupation of France
Holding the world economy hostage is the only way iran has for his civiliztion to not be destroyed and survival of the stste itself. I am not a selfish person who only thing about my self while my country support the war of gression
I was merely talking about trustworthiness, not about anything else. But you are right, there is no comparison between the levels of untrustworthiness of the two aggressors in the sentence versus the defending country. Iran has their own share of issues but there's no doubt as to who the bullies are in this specific case.
With the rhetoric of none are untrustworthy. It easy to blame both for the lack of solution which is a problem
Okay but they're not doing that so why bring that up?
I think his framing allow the idea that iran is also an obstacle to peace while it only want return of the stolen assets and sanction relief
The people we are at war with keep trying to kill us.
I mean... If anything it's the opposite here. The US is at war with Iran, and by trying to kill Trump they're probably attempting to stop the war by killing a single individual. So the "us" that you're referring to includes only Trump in this case.
Have you considered that in fact it was meant as a thought Trump might have, his amazement and feeling of unfairness that a power he is bombing and actively targeting the leadership of might reply in kind.
The Trolley Problem
The people we want to sign our peace plan, don't like it when we kill them.
He just had their leader assassinated and is threating to do it again.
Don't act surprised if Iran decides to play the same game.
Exactly, do I think this would be good? No. Would I feel like the US has any grounds to cry foul if Iran assassinated Trump from the perspective of a US citizen? How could I? Where do I even begin to construct the accusation against Iran without it becoming immediately hypocritical..?. and this is the alarming problem with the US government.
To be honest I think most USians would breathe a huge sigh of relief, even if it’s just quietly, in private.
The full-bore-psychos might see him as a martyr though 😬
The only way Trump is remembered in even a slightly positive light is if he is martyred. Killing Trump would be the best thing for Trump's ideology one could possibly do.
Trump alive is a constant reminder of how stupid Trumpism is, how incompetent and how violently incurious it is.
No, sorry, he will NEVER be seen as a martyr. A martyr's death is not met with song and celebration. If anything, it would make me respect the Iranians more.
And any MAGA attempts to paint him as a martyr will be met with jeers, like Charlie Kirk's "martyrdom."
Here's the thing: MAGAs don't do martyrs well. That takes caring about the person, and keeping their light and inspiration alive. The most basic problem with MAGAs is that they are all Sociopathic, and don't care about anyone but themselves. They don't understand caring, inspiration, etc. A person's value is utilitarian, not inspirational. Kirk's value was in recruiting and indoctrinating young conservatives, and once he assumed room temperature, he became useless.
His concubine has tried to keep his light alive, but only because she's milking his memory for as much cash as she can grab. That strategy is dying, so she'll soon announce some new revenue path, a podcast or a show on one of the new MAGA channels.
Why wouldn't they? That's only ONE problem with MAGAs - they are so stupid, that they don't understand that the same weapons that they use on others, can be used on them as well.
I guarantee that if Iran tries to kill Trump, he's going to scream "IT ISN'T FAIR!!"
Um yeah preeeeetty sure Iran said that part out loud on social media a while ago, but oh yeah totally bibi is totes trying to help out Shitler with this info.
Wonder what his angle is?
Funnily enough theres just as much of a chance that its either an Israeli plot or israel just made it up to scare trump...
Can't really trust trump or Netanyahu at all
I wonder if there’s some Iranian bureaucrat crunching the numbers and finding out that assassinating Trump is the most cost effective way to complete the peace process
Count on it. Most of the Iranian high command are PhDs. They're much smarter than MAGAs.
I'm sure the intent there is to keep the peace process running smoothly.
Israel shared intelligence with US of Iranian plot to create a nuclear weapon in two weeks as well.
It was also bullshit, but the demented rapist fell for that one too. He’s really fucking stupid.
Chances are this one was real given the fact Iran announced they were going to kill Trump, and they put up literal building sized banners saying they are going to kill him.
Iran's uranium enrichment program (the only purpose of which is to make weapons-grade uaranium) is well documented by the IAEA.
There were plenty of "Kill Trump" banners at the Ayatollah's funeral. And it's obvious they've wanted to kill Trump since Trump ordered the assassination of Soleimani.
Yes, Trump is a demented racist. But that doesn't mean you have to deny reality on everything to do with things you don't like.
The bullshit part was the timeframe which they said they were going to be able to enrich the amount of uranium needed to make a viable nuclear weapon. Plus, they are a sovereign nation who are allowed to make nuclear weapons, especially considering the US unilaterally ended the treaty that prohibited nuclear programs.
Also, random people holding kill trump banners isn't the same as the Iranian government making a feasible plan to assassinate the president.
They already had a uranium enriched to 60% according to the IAEA. https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-on-developments-in-iran
Sure starting from nothing to enriching uranium to the level needed to build a nuclear weapon would take a long time. But a country that has a uranium enrichment program that has already enriched uranium to 60%?
Also, random people holding kill trump banners isn’t the same as the Iranian government making a feasible plan to assassinate the president.
The IRGC controls information in Iran. Large banners that say "We will kill Trump" wouldn't be put up if the IRGC didn't approve. Also they've wanted kill Trump since he assassinated Soleimani. Killing the Ayatollah probably didn't change that.
I'm not saying Trump or Netanyahu are good, or that Iran doesn't have a reason to want to kill them. But let's not pretend the IRGC are innocent little lambs that would never ever do anything wrong. Trump, Netanyahu, the Ayatollah, the IRGC are all a bunch of shitbags.
Sure starting from nothing to enriching uranium to the level needed to build a nuclear weapon would take a long time. But a country that has a uranium enrichment program that has already enriched uranium to 60%?
Going for 60% to have a functional nuclear bomb is going to take longer than 2 weeks. You might be able to convert 60% to 90% if you had enough materials and enough centrifuges running, but that's not a bomb. Not to mention the time required to make a delivery system. They've been producing highly enriched uranium since 2021, the two week claim was just another misleading justification for an unjust war.
And again, they are a sovereign country, they are allowed to build nuclear weapons. We aren't invading every country in the world producing highly enriched uranium.
The IRGC controls information in Iran. Large banners that say "We will kill Trump" wouldn't be put up if the IRGC didn't approve.
Why wouldn't the IRGC approve of their citizens disliking a world leader that is actively bombing them? Even if they approved the sentiment, it doesn't mean they are actively making immediately actionable plans.
But let's not pretend the IRGC are innocent little lambs that would never ever do anything wrong.
Putting this into the context of geopolitics..... Did the IRGC commit any acts of war that would justify an invasion? Even if there were legitimate plans to take out the president of the United states, would that not be a valid wartime operation?
No one ever said tow weeks, except maybe Trump. But he's not a source of information.
You might be able to convert 60% to 90% if you had enough materials and enough centrifuges running, but that’s not a bomb. Not to mention the time required to make a delivery system.
They have the centrifuges. They have a delivery system. Once they have the material, they'd be able to put together a little boy style bomb.
The IAEA reported last year they were detecting radiation in places where Iran did not report having nuclear material. So they were moving material around in secret. For what purpose we don't know. But there's only one purpose to having nuclear material enriched above 5%.
And again, they are a sovereign country, they are allowed to build nuclear weapons.
So now you're admitting they're building nuclear weapons?
Putting this into the context of geopolitics… Did the IRGC commit any acts of war that would justify an invasion?
No war is justified. It's very 19th century to think this way. Wars are necessary when another nation threatens your survival.
Iran has made it clear they want to "wipe Israel off the map". That means they have ambitions on being an existential threat to another nation. If they construct nuclear weapons they would have the means to execute that threat.
If a nation has the capability to eliminate an existential threat, it is necessary for them to do so. This is the way the world works, there are no 19th century style justifications for war anymore.
Even if there were legitimate plans to take out the president of the United states, would that not be a valid wartime operation?
Whether it's valid or not is not relevant. It is a signal that they are not interested in a diplomatic outcome. If they wanted a diplomatic outcome, the IRGC wouldn't have allowed the banners, or at the very least make sure it wasn't publicized.
They are calling Trump out for another fight, that's what this means.
No one ever said tow weeks, except maybe Trump. But he's not a source of information
That was the statement you were originally replying too.... That was the justification for the entire war.
They have the centrifuges. They have a delivery system. Once they have the material, they'd be able to put together a little boy style bomb
Any sources for that?
So now you're admitting they're building nuclear weapons
I'm saying there isn't any reason a sovereign nation isn't allowed to build a bomb if they wanted.
No war is justified. It's very 19th century to think this way. Wars are necessary when another nation threatens your survival.
That's a justification you fucking idiot.
Iran has made it clear they want to "wipe Israel off the map". That means they have ambitions on being an existential threat to another nation. If they construct nuclear weapons they would have the means to execute that threat.
When has it ever been an official policy goal of Iran to "wipe Israel off the map"?
If a nation has the capability to eliminate an existential threat, it is necessary for them to do so
Ahh, yes. Because Israel is part of the United States?
Whether it's valid or not is not relevant. It is a signal that they are not interested in a diplomatic outcome.
They were sticking to the nuclear accords before Trump unilaterally ended them..... Seems like it's the US that's not interested in diplomatic outcomes.
That was the statement you were originally replying too… That was the justification for the entire war.
Ok so some guy on the internet called Chairman Meow said that. I didn't say that.
They have the centrifuges. They have a delivery system. Once they have the material, they’d be able to put together a little boy style bomb
Any sources for that?
Yeah, the IAEA. It's not my job look up information for you, the site is here: https://www.iaea.org/
Much of the information is in PDF form, and very technical stuff. So shit tier "journalists" won't read it.
I’m saying there isn’t any reason a sovereign nation isn’t allowed to build a bomb if they wanted.
What about the nuclear non-proliferation treaty?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons#Iran
I think you'll find Iran is violating international law with it's actions.
No war is justified. It’s very 19th century to think this way. Wars are necessary when another nation threatens your survival.
That’s a justification you fucking idiot.
When was the last time a country declared war? We stopped doing that kind of thing when it lead to two world wars and nuclear weapons came onto the scene. The way things are done now is there's escalation and de-escalation. It allows countries to back off from a war.
I'm talking about international norms and you call be a "fucking idiot". Maybe you need to educate yourself on how the world works beyond playing HOI4 or where ever you get your ideas from.
If a nation has the capability to eliminate an existential threat, it is necessary for them to do so
Ahh, yes. Because Israel is part of the United States?
Israel is an ally of the US. Do I need to explain how alliances work too FFS?
Whether it’s valid or not is not relevant. It is a signal that they are not interested in a diplomatic outcome.
They were sticking to the nuclear accords before Trump unilaterally ended them… Seems like it’s the US that’s not interested in diplomatic outcomes.
Congratulations, you finally got one right! Yes by all reports Iran was abiding by the JCPOA. Trump cancelled that then assassinated a general in his first term which made a war pretty much inevitable. It's possible war could have been avoided had Americans voted for Harris. But broadly speaking Americans are too stupid to know when they are voting for war. They voted for the Iraq war and didn't realize that, and by voting in Trump again they were voting for a war with Iran.
If we could rewind time and tell Bush not to do the "axis of evil" speech (which was the US signalling war with Iran) and use the time machine again and tell Trump to not cancel treaties with Iran and kill their general, and if they listened, then maybe a war could've been averted.
But since time travel isn't a thing, the adults need to focus on the situation at hand and not obsess over grievances. Iran has developed the capability of building a nuclear weapon. They've consistently expressed a desire to be an existential threat to Israel. The use of a nuclear weapon would result in the deaths of millions. This is obviously unacceptable (if you're not a fucking psychopath) and needs to be prevented.
The Iranian regime has also attacked all of it's neighbours, and has targeted civilians. Iran is also responsible for October 7 which led to a war that resulted in the deaths of over 73,000 Palestinians. It's clear they will attempt to repeat this in the future. Not to mention the fact that they've killed at least 30,000 Iranians to maintain their power.
Whatever grievances Iran has does not justify the evil acts their regime has brought onto the world. In an ideal world Bush would've never made the "axis of evil" speech, Trump wouldn't have cancelled the JCPOA and wouldn't have killed an Iranian general. But that it not the world we're living. In the world we live in has Iran under control of some psychopaths that want to build a nuke.
Bottom line, these psychopaths can't be allowed to have a nuke.
I believe this is referencing Netanyahu who has been warning Iran is only weeks away from developing nuclear weapons for over 30 years now. One has to wonder how credible these claims are at that point.
It was months away he was warning about, and that was Iran's strategy with uranium enrichment. Develop what was needed so that at any time they could give the order to build a nuke and within six month have a nuke.
It's like partially building a house and then pausing on the project when you're a few months away from completing it. You will always be a few months away from completing construction of the house until you make the decision to continue working on it.
Netanyahu sucks, Trump sucks, but the IRGC also sucks, and they had a uranium enrichment program while the uranium the imported from Russia was already enriched to the level needed for their one civilian nuclear power plant.
There's politics and then there's science. No civilian nuclear reactor needs enrichment about 5% and Iran has uranium enriched to 60%. Not enough to build a nuclear weapon (but definitely enough to build a dirty bomb) but also way more than needed for civilian uses. They've been at 60% for a decade, they could enrich it further and build a nuclear weapons in less a year if they chose to do that. So yes, they've been months away from building a nuke for about a decade. It's just science is difficult to explain, Netanyahu and Trump suck at explaining things (which is their job), and nobody wants to to listen to them because they suck, and people struggle to understand science even in the best of times.
Politics is more important in people's minds than science. W. Bush lied about Saddam's nuclear program, so there's a boy who cried wolf situation. Remember, at the end of the story there actually was a wolf, that wolf ate the boy and ate the sheep and the village was fucked.
if only we should be so lucky 😪
Just the Iranians?
I find that hard to believe.
This is one of those situations where you have to monitor an elder so he doesn't get scam called but he's the potus so you actually can't do that. Kind of fucked.
I'm not going to help you Iran. But I'm also not going to stop you.
So there is no plot after all