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submitted 3 weeks ago by CAVOK@lemmy.world to c/europe@feddit.org
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[-] protist@mander.xyz 146 points 3 weeks ago

“I’m not going to go to some backwoods country and tell them how to live their lives,” Vance added. “But European countries should theoretically share American values, especially about some very basic things like free speech.”

The US ranked 26th in the world when it comes to free speech, with several members of the European Union higher up the list, according to the 2024 Global Expression Report.

😑 I'm going to have to disconnect from the news more often moving forward

[-] lime@feddit.nu 64 points 3 weeks ago

most of europe explicitly does not have free speech, because it's commonly understood that harmful speech exists. i don't know what he's trying to convey with that idea but he comes across as misinformed, and not a little bit controlling ("should")

[-] curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 52 points 3 weeks ago

American here! Its because this is all rhetoric for the idiots that follow him. He doesn't care if Europeans see him as an idiot, he cares that the idiots here see him as big brained. And the rubes eat up anything that has "free speech" in it because they generally interpret that as "its OK to be racist and misogynistic, its my right because freedoms!"

Hope this helped explain.

And probably also explains why I want to leave.

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[-] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 29 points 3 weeks ago

The important thing is, that in Europe free speech is normally defined as the freedom to say everything as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. This is also with a lot of different forms of freedom. Your freedom ends where the freedom of others begin.

[-] Eril@feddit.org 9 points 3 weeks ago

And that is the proper definition imo. Other people are not NPCs, you are not the main character🤷

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[-] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 20 points 3 weeks ago

Americans always freak out when they hear Canada has hate speech laws and claim they're anti free speech.

Most of us don't ever need to worry about hate speech laws, because most of us aren't going around calling for violence and open bigotry against entire ethnic groups.

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 17 points 3 weeks ago

Not accepting hate speech, in particularly inciting violence is not contradictory to free speech in my opinion.

We should not follow the US idea, that speech is only free, if any vile poison can be spread. In the context of Musk that is also ironic, as he is using his powers to censor people.

[-] 332@feddit.nu 102 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I think it's clear that we can never rely on the US again in any respect. Absolute chaotic backwater sinkhole of an oligarch fascist state.

We're on our own.

Maybe it's good that we know that now.

[-] Jumi@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago

Now only our politicans have to realise that

[-] Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works 13 points 3 weeks ago

I can't even rely on the US government to value human decency as a native citizen. I'll keep fighting where I can, but yeah. Good luck.

[-] Silverseren@fedia.io 11 points 3 weeks ago

As an American, I agree. Hopefully the Republicans try to go off the rails enough that the public finally gets convinced that the only way to deal with these maniacs is their own language - violence.

[-] 332@feddit.nu 14 points 3 weeks ago

I hope you guys can get through it without anything dramatic happening, but I don't think the world can afford to rely on the US being consistently reasonable any more. This is genuinely Russia level stuff.

[-] CAVOK@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

I honestly hope not, although I worry for the US.

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[-] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 6 points 3 weeks ago
  1. The people who voted for him unironically ain't the brightest bulbs. I guarantee they'll see Tr*mp blame Dems and run with it.

  2. Even if they do see them going off the rails, there's no guarantees we'll be able to do anything about it. For all we know, he could easily turn the country into a dictatorship where nobody gets to vote for anything anymore. As Tr*mp has said before, He'Ll OnLy Be A dIcTaToR dAy OnE (or something along those lines). In English, I'm positive that translates to "Democracy Is Dead".

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[-] Soup@lemmy.world 51 points 3 weeks ago

Did…did Vance just call European countries “backwoods”? He couldn’t possibly have, right? He’s not that stupid…right?

[-] eran_morad@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago

Bro, you know he’s fucking dumb af.

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[-] federalreverse@feddit.org 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Why is that stupid? Europeans are dependent on him now. European leaders will demurely congratulate Trump and him on their victory and hope they won't be hit too hard by what comes next.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 26 points 3 weeks ago

To call a bunch of countries that rank much higher than the States on quality of life “backwoods” is a pretty wild statement. The U.S. is the proudly unwiped asshole of the developed world.

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[-] Tiptopit@feddit.org 27 points 3 weeks ago

Trump has long shared his disdain for NATO – during his first term, he reportedly privately discussed pulling out of the alliance completely.

Which would at this point not be unwelcomed.

[-] BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 16 points 3 weeks ago

It wouldn't be fantastic, the UK and France can't project the same kind of power the US does.

[-] Dasus@lemmy.world 35 points 3 weeks ago

Well, true.

But on the other hand, sanity from not being beholden to a demented child-raping fascist is a big bonus.

[-] federalreverse@feddit.org 6 points 3 weeks ago

*alleged demented, *allegedly child-raping ...

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 3 points 3 weeks ago

It's not like the us would be out of Europe's lives though, it would be even more obnoxious as there wouldn't be any shared standards any more

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 11 points 3 weeks ago

Is the US power projection at the long term benefit of the EU though? The consistent destabilization of the Middle East for instance brought more tension to Europe as people had to flee from the region. EU member states getting dragged into US wars didn't help our image in the world either.

When it comes to defense, UK and France have enough nukes for effective deterrent. The EU is also large enough to thwart aggression at its borders and buffer zones like countering the Russian invasion of Ukraine, if the EU chooses to develop and maintain a joint defense infrastructure. Unfortunately that was postponed instead of forwarded after Biden won in 2020 and EU politicians went back to the status quo.

[-] Mihies@programming.dev 5 points 3 weeks ago

Yep, destabilization of Middle East is a big win for the enabler US against EU - they get influence and oil, EU gets migrant waves to deal with.

[-] superkret@feddit.org 4 points 3 weeks ago

"Power projection" isn't necessary for a strictly defensive alliance.
The fact that a direct attack on one member counts as a direct attack on all members (some of which have nukes) is enough.

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[-] cron@feddit.org 19 points 3 weeks ago

I can't see how this makes any sense in a geopolitical view.

[-] Ledivin@lemmy.world 27 points 3 weeks ago

They aren't being nice to our oligarch, that isn't a good enough reason?

[-] thefluffiest@feddit.nl 15 points 3 weeks ago

X is trumpisms propaganda channel. Can’t have that regulated now can we?

[-] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 weeks ago

Stop expecting it to make sense.

[-] cron@feddit.org 6 points 3 weeks ago

It makes sense from the perspective that Musk is the new (secret) president of the USA. He paid hundreds of millions to get to this position, now he tries to get profit from it.

[-] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Elmo's going to get fucked and tossed aside like every other asshole that deals with The Idiot. Did you miss the endless list of former cronies who endorsed Kamala, specifically because they worked with this walking personality disorder?

Any time you imagine some "4D chess" explanation, where surely there must self-consistent clever schemes behind this batshit insane nonsense, that is you, as a reasonable person, figuring out why a reasonable person would do something that looks batshit insane. That explanation will never predict future nonsense. These people are exactly as crazy as they appear. The gallingly simple explanation for why this all looks so fucking stupid is that fascism is not rational.

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[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 16 points 3 weeks ago

In international relation rhetoric is policy. Just saying.

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[-] DmMacniel@feddit.org 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

So not only declared JD Ottoman-fucker Vance his incompetence and ignorance of global affairs but also admits being on putins payroll.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 15 points 3 weeks ago

That's hilarious. Vance thinks he can control the EU.

[-] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 11 points 3 weeks ago

I'm Glad the Owner of those Websites isn't now a High Ranking Government Official! THAT would be a HUGE Conflict of Interest!

[-] Minarble@aussie.zone 10 points 3 weeks ago

So Vance is running the place not Trump?

[-] Doom@ttrpg.network 8 points 3 weeks ago

Actually a little yes. He was chosen because he's a silicon valley fucker and friends with Peter Thiel. Hence the elon connection.

Vance wasn't just a stupid pick

[-] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 3 weeks ago

Why are you posting an article from September (= before the US election) now, in November?

[-] MyDogLovesMe@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

Your government, bought and paid for.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

"Don't try to get the government involved in the business of billionaires, unless the government is giving them billions more of taxpayer dollars, or making it illegal to compete with them"

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

If that threat is even an option to bluff, then unfortunately NATO will likely be going away no matter what :(

I so hope I'm wrong.

[-] Badeendje@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

Why? If the US withdraws the rest can stay, the framework exists. It's a matter of reciprocity. NATO/the EU would just need to expand her nuclear arsenal

Yes the US is absolutely the 500 pound gorilla in the room, but if the US manages to burn their relations with their allies, and stuff like 5 eyes would cease, they are essentially blind. The US operates it's intelligence network at the behest of countries and relies on information sharing just as much.

And with Iran and a LOOOOONG list of groups and people and countries they fucked over, angered, bombed, etc... the US will not see the next 9/11 coming.

The US has a lot of capabilities, but if a group of radicals manage to hijack several planes and bring down your new York landmark and damage the Pentagon, just imagine what better organized and equipped players can do.

Oh, and NATO operates primarily US weaponry, this also has a reason. If the US withdraws from NATO I think we will see cancelled orders and an orders placed elsewhere.. within NATO member states.

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[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Shame, but now we are gonna block greedy tech megacorps even harder!

[-] Microw@lemm.ee 4 points 3 weeks ago

Where does the "veto" un your title come from? The US can't veto shit. And Vance' quote is to stop support for NATO, not veto.

[-] CAVOK@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

From the site. I don't change their headlines.

[-] Microw@lemm.ee 3 points 3 weeks ago

Ah, but they changed theirs :D

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this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
216 points (95.0% liked)

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