Ask Lemmy

You're losing friendships by asking for support? Something's missing here...

I was in a similar situation about 8 years ago. Married my dream girl, she seemed perfect for those years of flirting and dating. Didn't really notice that she'd slowly separated me from my support network. After we got married it was like a switch was flipped, I was always on the defensive, everything I did was wrong, I was always the bad guy. Woke up one day feeling like it'd be better if I just wasn't around anymore. Stewed in my misery for months before realizing one evening that there was a source of my misery. Spent another couple of months feeling too embarrassed to do anything. Then one day she was giving me shit over some nonsense and I just blurted it out. It wasn't easy, but things slowly got back on track. I focused on myself and what was in my control, got back in shape, found time for hobbies I'd left behind, brought myself the joy that was missing. Now I'm happily married to an amazing woman who's provided me with an equally amazing child and it's hard for me to even remember the anguish I was going through.

Obviously our situations aren't the same, but I just wanted to share and let you know that things get better. Some friends will filter back in, some won't. Any mutual friends I had with my ex are just gone, she made sure to put barriers between us with shit talking and lies; fuck them too, they weren't true friends.

That sounds really tough and I'm so sorry you've been struggling. It's really good that you have a counselor and you're talking things through with someone who will help you learn how to advocate for yourself. The people in your life who were ghosting you might be a combination of shitty people and people who are afraid/uncomfortable with your new lifestyle. The only thing that matters now is tending to yourself and building a life that fits and feels right. Lots of good advice on here about finding hobbies that keep you engaged and will support you in finding new friends. If anything I'll be your friend and check in with you, so hit up my dm's anytime.

Are you ok?

People who are depressed often are unable to adhere to unwritten cultural social rules.

People in theory like to see themselves as supportive, but still will not react well to people violating unwritten cultural norms.

Example:

"i am so sad, this awful thing happen."

"Don't worry bro, it will get better, just pump iron and time will heal all. Hey do you want to see a funny video of my dog trying to bark at a roomba?"

(Awkward silence, breaking social rule of reciprocity) (long pause) "sure..."

(Video of dog)

(No laughter or comments, breaking rule that friends are supposed to be fun, react to things)

Result: next time depressed guy calls, "bro" will be too busy to pick up

Because people want to think of themselves as reliable and always there and supporting mental health, "bro" will never admit to himself the reason he is doing this, nor will it even be logically articulated. Instead he'll think "i feel bad but im so busy lately" and just not take the call or forget to answer

This is completely in contrast with someone who is slightly depressed or dealing with something slightly difficult but not actually that depressed and able to adhere to social norms. For that person, they will get tons of superficial sound-bite support in between other normal acceptable activities and conversations. The "supporter" feels like a super hero for caring about mental health, and really it's just two people hanging out, neither of whom really have major mental health issues.

I would suggest if you are really brutally clinically depressed, do not interact that much with your network until you are feeling a bit better because people are that shallow sometimes. Instead, do things like volunteer at community organizations in which more hands on deck is good, and if you cancel it's not a big deal. (ie making food for homeless people)

Also the truth is many people are shitty in general. I don't think this is something caused by you. I also think that much of the advice about mental health and depression is about making paychiatrists and mental health professionals look good and people feel good.

things like "talk about your mental health issues" and "help is available" and "prioritize mental health" all feel like lies that make other people feel better. But what if instead the truth was told? "Prioritize having food and being able to pay rent. Do not talk about your mental health issues ever except to trained professionals. Help is available and horrendously expensive; if you can cry and be sad 6 months and then go back to normal without rip-off doctors and professionals, you are much better off."

So it's not you at all. People are assholes and the mental health industry gives lucrative self-serving advice to glorify and protect the industry while screwing over people who would be better helped by the truth.

Men tend to really struggle to make and maintain friendships. That's not just you. Anyone who thinks you need to "get over it" can get fucked. Healing from an experience like that takes time.

It sounds like you're already going to therapy. The other thing that helped me a lot was self-care. Be intentional about doing things that you enjoy. I spent lots of time fishing and playing golf. It was therapeutic in its own way.

Same here. My ex husband told everyone that I cheated on him. I mean, considering the fact that nobody ever asked for my side of the story, I suppose they weren't really friends anyway.

I'm going through a divorce right now. For the most part the friends and people I've told have largely been supportive of me. I think it helped that I had friends that were my own and not shared with my ex-wife. The shared friends we had together have mostly supported her, but they were her friends before we had met. One of the things I have done since splitting is getting more involved with my hobby that is improv theater. Finding a hobby where you are around others can help with building a group of friends who know you not through your ex or past relationship. It would make it more likely that they would support you and not her.

Yeah this is what men deal with & guess what you'll be gaslit into thinking that YOU WERE THE PROBLEM all along eventhough evidence suggests otherwise.

There are friends and friends of convenience. Real friends stay by your side. The others show their colors eventually. I’m sorry for you but you’ll find real friends going forward.

Hey man. That sounds insanely hard, I'm so sorry you're dealing with it alone without support.

Just want to say that I've had a similar experience. When I was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago at 27, I was and still very much am so frustrated, disappointed, and heartbroken by the lack of support around me. My family and friends didn't reach out in any way, acted like nothing was happening, I was dealing with it on my own, without so much as a "how are you doing?".

I don't have much to offer you, I don't have answers. But I know when I went posting online looking for some, the solidarity of others with similar experiences helped keep me sane.

I'm a nice, good looking, talented young dude. It's not me, it's not you. At least for me, I happened to grow up in a culture where men don't show feelings or need support. My girlfriend gets more support for dealing with my condition. It frustrates and saddens me beyond belief.

The small solace I've had is that I've been given the gift of knowledge through this experience. I've dealt with my mortality very young, and have a perspective on life my friends couldn't have yet. There are others that get it, and you'll find them. I lost who I thought were my close friends but gained close friends out of people I rarely thought of as friends at all.

People suck and are incredibly, inherently selfish. A lot of people do care but you can literally get cancer and they won't break social norms to show it. Don't take time waiting for these people. In my experience, the cancer wasn't the hardest part. It was this part of losing all my friends and family. People don't want to be around hard stuff.

Good luck, keep yourself grounded. It's not you, it's our broken and fucked up society. Find those that have dealt with these things, and focus on the dumb, small things that make you happy. I'm rooting for you.

Can you define what you were asking for in terms of support from your friends? I've not been married but I've been through some shitty breakups and I've never really even considered asking my friends for anything. Like I don't even know what they could do to help matters. I just had to deal with all the emotional stuff and move on. If anything I think a lot of them would have made the situation more toxic in their efforts to make me feel better.

I'm not asking this to tell you to get over it even though it probably sounds that way. I'm trying to understand what someone else in this situation is actually looking for that will help them. I'm sorry you're not getting what you need.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I know it sucks. The truth is, nobody cares about a man's suffering. There's something in a man's weakness that repulses most people. Even people that like you and would love to see you do good. When I went through the same I realized the only people who care are close family, people who can relate and people who have some interest in you. It sucks but you must know it's not about you.

That being said you have both sides to take into account. Your so-called friends are not your friends and they never were. Period. Erase them from your life. They deserve even less thoughts than your ex. When the chips are down they showed you what they were about. Now you know how worthless they are. Some people are not as lucky and stay in toxic and superficial "friendships" for years and that stops them from finding actual good friends.

And, non withstanding all that, a depressed and sad person is not a good company. It brings you down. And that's OK because we make sacrifices for the people we love. But if the person is in a vicious cycle of negativity and always complaining to the same person, it gets tiresome pretty fast. I'm not saying it's your case, it's just something to keep your mind on. Friends should support you but only you can actually fix yourself. Usually time heals everything but, if it's not, it's your responsibility to take care of your mental health (therapist, psychiatrist, etc). There's only so much a friend can do for you. And don't put all that weight on one person. Spread it around.

And stop talking crazy about ending it. It hurts. It's one of the worst pains I ever felt. It's almost unbearable. But it does get better. And eventually you will feel whole again. It's a hard road but there is paradise up ahead. But for now you have to walk through hell to reach it. But I promise you, it will be worth every step.

Men are taught not to care for each other

I dont know who you have around you, maybe they are shitty people. but I can assure you that it's not "just what guys deal with". it's taken time, but I built a support system of kind caring friends who show up. we're open and honest and vulnerable and emotional with each other. we talk on the phone and go to each other's houses.

you can build those supports too. it just takes time. ever been to a Recovery meeting?

Pretty limited information, but based on it being hard to imagine a group of compassionate people all siding with the person who did the cheating, my guess is that your "friends" probably suck. My advice isto sign up for a community college acting class and try hard to immerse yourself in it. Acting and getting involved in theatre totally cured my serious anxiety problems. There's something about it that helps you get unwrapped from yourself and want to explore other people and the world more. My other advice is don't define yourself as "the divorced guy" - especially when socializing with new people. They aren't gonna want to hear all the gory details. Dig into your personal interests and what makes you happy and focus on those things.

I split with my ex of 10 years (together while I was 18 thru 29ish) and took for granted what support I did have. I'm lucky to have had parents and adult siblings on my side.

You're doing a heavier lift than I had to. I'd have been in a bad place if I had no support. You were dealt a shitty hand. But the support is there, and you're on the right track to healing by seeing your therapist. Future you will be able to look back and see this for the learning experience it is. Today my wife and I tease past-me about some red flags I ignored about my ex.

I want to share Tragedy + Time by Rise Against with you. It may come across as intended for the bereaved, but its words do not gatekeep feelings based on the cause of them. (It says "she" once but don't get hung up on the gender.) In fact, I am tearing up right now at the thought that you, feeling what you feel, might find some solace in it.

My ex is surrounded by support, from the same people who I thought were my best friends.

This is the reason why. Your ex has managed to control the narrative and has manipulated the social atmosphere to ice you out. Emotional abusers are often very good at this. They mamipulate everyone around them.

And they are really good at choosing their abuse victims. They know who they can love bomb, who they can isolate, and who will keep their mouth shut.

I have been there. Watched people I thought were friends just evaporate, choosing their relationship with my ex over me. Realizing they were never my friends, they were "ours", and ij the end they stuck by her, the more openly social and boistrous one.

It's taken a long time, and many different therapists, but I've come to accept my experiences as abuse, as not my fault, and... sometimes... that I am worthy of love, friendship, and happiness.

I have found the books The Body Keeps the Score and Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving (available as audio books), as well as videos on toxic shame and attachment by Heidi Prieb, very helpful.

I know the words feel hollow, because they feel so far the opposite of true, but you are not alone. Many others have been through what you've endured, and have made it out the other side. There are people out there who will, one day, be so very glad to have you in their lives.

Some day, when you're ready -- and much earlier than I did, I implore you -- you should join some activity groups. Take up a recreational sport, join a gaming group, take group acting lessons, join a choir... anything that is a) casual and b) a group activity. Bonus points if it's something you always enjoyed, buy your ex tried to excise from your life. This will help you rebuild your social network, and let you reconnect with yourself.

Physical activity and a healthy diet is also important here. It may be the last thing you want to do, but it actively helps fight all of your worst psychic injuries. Not only is it physiologically good for you, it's psychologicallly good for you. You know that it's good for you; your brain knows it. Doing healthy things means choosing to care about yourself. You need to actively choose yourself at every step of the way. It trains your mind to see yourself as worthy of care.

Oh, and ritually burn things that were hers, or that were shared and tied to your relationship. You don't need them. You don't need her. You're going to be better off without her.

You are heard! ❤️

Well,

You've got some support right here

Stay strong

In a variety of ways, people communicate to men, 'Please don't need anything from me, because I have nothing to give you.'

hey man, I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

some people in here are taking the view that society is less kind to men than to women. everyone's entitled to their opinion, I guess.

I wanted you tell you though that I share your experience to some extent; I went through a breakup maybe 6 years ago and I lost almost all of my closest friends in that breakup. I'm not even on bad terms with my ex, lol. but it did just shake out that way. I've needed to build new roots, and I've had to do some introspection and learn how to go about building roots (partly since I'd moved to a new place).

hang in there. I don't really want to say "let yourself move on" because your story is part of who you are, and right now that breakup and that rift with those friends is such an immediate and intense part of your story, but I promise it will become much less immediate and less intense with time.

Are you ok? I cant do much for ya but sorry no one has gotten outside themselves enough to see youre hurting.

What got me through what sounds like a very similar divorce for me was being a part of a hobby with an inperson community that met weekly in every large city around me.

I drove probably 300 miles a week going to events to do anything to get my mind off life and spend time with people I actually liked, doing something I enjoyed.

Things that come to mind that will meet this are martial arts, fighting games, and outdoor activities (like biking or hiking groups).

What you're going through right now is the process of discovering the phone numbers you can stop answering. The flat tires you can stop changing, the computers you can stop fixing, the lunches you can stop lending, the favors you can stop doing.

My family abandoned me after my divorce - my ex husband did some fucked up manipulative shit. (“I want us to be poly/for you sleep with another guy” -> “he cheated on me” when I finally did it to both of our entire extended families.)

What has helped me coped more than anything is new hobbies. Rebuilding a self. I started taking pottery classes and made some outside social connections. Art is a really good means of the self exploration that teaches you who you are and what it means to be a person again. Therapy of course, but you have to find someone that clicks with you.

It’s been about two and half years since it happened. (Well, the divorce itself was a nightmarish year long hell.) I’m finally starting to feel like myself again.

I’d say Google your local vo-tech or library. Show up to cooking classes or book clubs or something. Something new, that honors the new person you must become.

What is your routine like? Do you go to work? Volunteer? Have hobbies?

I ask this because going through a breakup — any breakup — involves a grieving process. Part of grieving is about moving on. A big part of doing that is finding new things to do, new people to talk to, and new things to talk about.

Counseling is good, but talking to other friends and family about her can make it very difficult. If you meet someone new — doesn’t have to be romantic, can be any gender, can just be a friend — can give you a person to talk to and topics to discuss that involve you and your interests and have nothing to do with her.

When you’re in a relationship for a long time a lot of your thoughts and even the objects around you in life get tangled up in that so that when she’s gone these things still remind you of her. What you need is to be selfish — grieving is a selfish process — because you need to reorient your mindset around yourself and taking care of yourself.

Lastly, I think it’s also helpful to have a third space where you can focus on stuff completely outside yourself and all that. For me it’s been volunteering as a tutor for high school kids. It gives me a time and a space each week to forget about everything and focus on something else. Helping kids and seeing them learn is a nice bonus for that. That may not be your cup of tea though, but something else may be! If you aren’t already into volunteering I’d encourage you to look into some volunteer organizations near you and try to find one that fits your interests.