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I guess the fake American exceptionalism has something todo with it. They think and actually believe that the USA is the best country in the world, because that's what they've been told everywhere by everyone. In the US, of course, because outside the US we laugh about the country.
Maybe they're also subconsciously afraid to go there and see that their whole life has been a lie
Not only this, as much as I love him due to him being family, I don't love his views.
First off, I want to tell you that this is OK, even if it's hard. I know plenty of people who hold similar views to your dad. Some of them I love very much even though I strongly disagree with their politics.
I have family members who are MAGA. Some of their views are completely shameful and deserving of harsh criticism. Yet, sometimes those same people can be incredibly generous and do very good things for others.
People are complicated.
If your dad were honest with himself, he would be willing to admit that if he lived in a place where his family was dirt poor and in serious danger, he would probably do whatever it took to care for them, even if it meant illegally entering a country.
Immigration laws don't mean shit when you don't know where your next meal is coming from or if the cartel is going to murder your wife and kids tomorrow.
If he were really honest with himself, he would have to admit that he's not all that different from some poor brown guy from Central America who has many the same problems that he does.
Not only this, as much as I love him due to him being family, I don’t love his views.
First off, I want to tell you that this is OK, even if it’s hard. I know plenty of people who hold similar views to your dad. Some of them I love very much even though I strongly disagree with their politics.
I think it’s important to emphasize this. People on the internet can be quick to demonize others. But OP is 15. What good is there in trying to create a divide between a 15 year old and his grandpa? There is none, not in this situation, anyway.
Besides, if we’re being honest, most of our grandparents have questionable views. There’s a massive generational gap there, and a lot of social progress has occurred since our grandparents were young. And in old age, people often just don’t have the cognitive flexibility required to adapt to these changes. And there comes a point when it might not even be worth trying to change them because they might literally just not be capable.
It's likely not that this attitude results from his politics, but that his politics result from the same views that result in this attitude. It's a narrow world view, perpetuated by propaganda and the american civil religion (not that this is exclusive to the US, but it sure seems prevalent there).
Ignore him best you can, and do what makes you happy. Not sure if there's a way to convince him to help you save for it, but if he thinks that murica is the greatest country on earth, it seems unlikely he'd ever support you wanting to leave that - temporarily or permanently.
He's probably racist and it has to do with his politics
If he likes English so much he should move to England. America isn't the place to live if you only want to speak English.
The vast majority of people do speak English in some form, but England isn't exclusively English either. Nearly 1 in 10 people resident in England and Wales didn't list English or Welsh as their main language in a 2021 census.
Depending on how you count you can get 12 or more indigenous languages in the UK, at least 7 of which are commonly recognised (English, Welsh, Irish, Scots, Scots Gealic, Cornish, BSL). Scotland has 4 official languages, Wales has 2, Northern Ireland's official language is Irish and notably not English, and England has no official language. Then there's the non-indigenous languages like Polish and Punjabi, there's enough speakers using those are their main language to be notable.
Yeah, but at least in England it's the native language, so you have an excuse. There's no excuse for not learning one of the many native languages in America
Some people and especially old people have a lot of experience in not doing anything. They like to reaffirm their decision.
If he suddenly changed his mind, he'd also have to acknowledge that he had lived most of his life with a narrow mind in all the situations where he chose not to take a chance. It's the sunken cost fallacy.
It's not just old people. It happens all the time in all kinds of ways when someone doesn't want to rigorously investigate their options in a situation and simply go with what they already have. They'll make up excuses for their (lack of) choice afterwards. It could be chosing a restaurant, buying a car, settling in a certain neighborhood or anything really.
Travel. Ignore him. I’ve had the pleasure visiting 7 countries, 5 non English native. Top of the list are Italy, Sweden, Czech Republic, England, Ireland, Canada (Montreal). I’d travel more if I had more money and time to. It’s been one of the most impactful things on me as a human.
The US has no national language by design. We’re a melting pot; a country of immigrants. That is our greatest strength. Taking the often humble, mixing it, mutating it, and making it our own.
I don’t speak any other languages, but I try. Only on very rare occasions was language a barrier. I understand I’m a guest in other people’s countries so I mind my p’s & q’s. You’re representing your country, so be kind. Approach other cultures with genuine curiosity. At least learn basic phrases like hello, goodbye, please, thank you, and anything else you can manage, but you don’t need to fluent.
IMO, US born tourist are the worst. Loud, entitled, obnoxious, ignorant. They expect everywhere to be just perfect for them and how they like to live, like it’s Disney World. Those people won’t get a whole lot out of travel and just make us look worse than we already do on the international stage. Oh and the “influencers”… In Venice, they were like locusts.
I’ve also traveled all over the US and it can be beautiful, but you live here; you’ll get much more of a perspective shift going somewhere completely different. Also, by comparison of other countries, the US is pretty mid. Traveling help you see the US for what it is, not for what we’re told it is.
Definitely go with your instinct here. Foster that curiosity. I promise it will pay dividends you can’t imagine now.
Hard to say, he probably doesn't even know why he dislikes it himself.
But do travel the world, it will be a great experience and will teach tou valuable lessons. Get a job to pay for a flight, or just hitchhike and enjoy.
Don't do drugs, but do travel the world.
Because it sounds fucking exhausting and like you tryings to brainwash them.
You're not going to find a rational, well reasoned, explanation. It's just emotions. Fear, pride, shame. Most people are too cowardly to do any difficult introspection, and an older person who's probably never practiced it is a unlikely to start now.
Reasonably well traveled American here. 10 countries over 5 continents as of this comment.
You should go and see the world. It's an amazing experience! I think wanting to learn more languages is commendable and I hope you do. But even if you don't, don't let that stop you from traveling. English is widely spoken, especially in the service industry. And translation apps, while clunky, work well enough.
Your Grandpa doesn't sound like he wants his mind changed. I say that partly from what you said, and partly because I know the type. And it's hard to convince anyone who isn't interested in changing their preconceived notions. Which is sad, being stuck in a box of his own making. I can understand you wanting him to see it the way you do. But if you can't, that's not your fault. And he can't hold you back unless you let him.
He's scared of everything he doesn't know.
Maybe he doesn't want to BECOME the immigrant
Is he Native American, by chance?
If not, I've got some news for him.
You're right, this should be in quotes
They don't understand this point unfortunately.
Surely it's a misunderstanding and it has nothing to do with his politics? He's MAGA in case anyone was wondering, a huge Trump defender
You've answered your own question, and don't call me Shirley.
Assuming the Grandpa watches Fox News / OAN / Newsmax, they've sold him the lie that immigrants are taking their jobs and going to ruin the middle class, meanwhile it's they who are having the middle class vote against their interests, gutting healthcare, breaking up families, dissuading workers to unionize, etc. Basically this politically cartoon:
More accurate version:
he says "Why can't you just stay here?" or "Why can't you visit this country first?"
Just straight up ask him why. He may not have an answer he wants to vocalize, but it puts him in a position where he may have to try internally.
A lot of fear of immigrants comes from the fear of the unknown, which likely corresponds with his fear of you traveling to foreign countries.
Scrolled way too far to find this. Depending on how well traveled OP is their grandpa might be saying, "there's tons of cool stuff much closer to home, why not check that out first?"
Modern conservatism is based on fear and hatred of the 'other.' "Immigrants" (brown people with accents), gays, 'wrong' religions (mostly those practiced by brown people with accents), etc.
Your grandfather is scared of them, and hates them for making him scared. It's rooted in racism and phobias. No justification from him will change it.
As you get older, you will have the option to agree with him, ignore his behaviour for the sake of family harmony, or aggressively reject his beliefs - which will potentially mean rejecting him. Choose wisely, and keep your compassion alive.
As a monolingual English speaking American with Norwegian heritage... You MUST go and visit.
I've been 4 times in 10 years. I've connected with my distant cousins.
Tell Gramps to "get bent".
That's amazing! And Norwegians speak excellent English, I've heard!
Yes, of course.
Conservatives often have two key defining characteristics that they build their entire belief system around:
A lack of empathy, and a fear of "other" individuals and cultures.
These lead to a whole host of outcomes, and vary by individual. When it comes to travel I often see it expressed in how vacation is viewed.
Many conservatives I know view vacation as being 100% about them - relaxing, eating their favorite food, seeing their favorite sights, doing their favorite things. They do not care about leaning about someone else's experience or culture because they cannot empathize with them, and the xenophobia means they're scared of how to even broach the subject.
He’s been groomed to be terrified of American cities, let alone other countries.
The speak English to those that speak with an accent can come about because some people have a very hard time with accents. Especially as they get older. My mom has a very hard time understanding a someone from the Middle East who is speaking English. It’s not that she is racist it’s that’s she older and her ears are wearing out. My dad is the same way. My mom is more patient when dealing with people who have a strong accent. My dad… less so.
I worked with my dad and got him to understand that it’s not that they aren’t speaking English… it’s that they have a strong accent. I at least got him to stop saying “speak English “ . It’s a small step.
My point is: talk to your grandpa and see if he has a hard time understanding the accent.
The rest of it, ask why he doesn’t like travel. Is he afraid of crime or what is it. Maybe you can show him the truth
he goes on about how people speak English in America and in Germany and Norway, they speak other languages
They do speak other languages. However, 88% of Norwegians seem to be fluent in English. The percentage is less in Germany, I think about 25%, but that's still enough people that you could get by, particularly in the tourist areas.
Pappy votes MAGA. So it's very likely that the Norwegians and Germans that know English have a better grasp of it.
I got by with little more than danke, ja and zwei bier.
Travel is annoying and everywhere has a weird smell.
Also when you come back home after being gone a while, it smells weird there too until you go nose blind to it again.
Right? Going somewhere is bad and it ruins coming home.
He's MAGA in case anyone was wondering,
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we all figured that one out.
¿Qué?
To sum it up - Americans are cowards.
Sadly, current events just reinforce that reality even more.
Your grandfather is a useless mouth breather. Sorry.
Is that really necessary?
Yes it is. Pretending like Maga are human just ignores the last 10 years. They should be isolated and shunned.
MAGA or not, I think it is distasteful to say something so horrible about somebody’s grandfather, especially to a kid
I disagree. Holding back your hatred emboldens them. They need to be made aware they are hated and treated as such. The sooner he becomes 18 and goes no contact with this child raping mouth breather the better.
I'm sorry the kid is related to him.
I share your sentiment about MAGA people in general. But in this situation you're also saying it to a 15 year old kid about their Grandpa. I think it's a situation that calls for more tact.
I'd prefer he realizes his grandfather deserves to choke on a sandwich now then later.