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I've been kicking this can down the road for years, but I finally got a job that involves cutting so much melamine board there's no way I'm doing it with a circular saw.
I watched multiple safety videos before even opening the package, and now I'm just sitting here staring at it wondering whether I should fire it up and cut off a finger or two. I'm fucking terrified of this thing.
I moderate woodworking@lemmy.ca. Please join us there.
Table saws are dangerous tools. Healthy caution and a big amount of respect is warranted. A circular saw of any type can maim you in ways doctors can't fix, and the table saw by its nature is most likely to do so.
Do me a big personal favor and always wear your safety glasses and hearing protection. Believe you me, the fun stops when you're halfway through ripping a board and your eyes reflexively shut because you got sawdust in them. Also: table saws never have anything interesting or useful to say. Don't listen to them.
Okay that last part is me trying to be humorous, actually do listen to the saw, if you hear strange noises it can be indicative of problems. You can hear those through approved earmuffs or plugs.
Something I would do: practice hitting the off button. Get to know where it is, by feel. With your hand and your knee. You're unlikely to put your fingers through the blade during an otherwise safe cut; it can happen, but that's an intuitive problem. Push sticks solve that problem. I've cut myself on the push stick thousands of times with table saws. Doesn't hurt at all. Push sticks are If you can touch the blade with your thumb and the fence with your pinky, use a push stick or push block. Also, get or make a featherboard and learn how to use it. Another useful device for keeping the fingies attached.
The unintuitive problem is kickbacks. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7sRrC2Jpp4 If a piece of wood is trapped between the fence and the blade, and isn't well constrained by the fence, it'll pivot, dig into the back, rising edge of the blade, tension builds up, and then it gets thrown backward. If you're holding onto that board when it kicks back, it can take your hand back through the blade with it. This is why they tell you not to use the fence and miter gauge together: The severed piece is now loose and unconstrained between the fence and the blade near the far edge of the blade, it almost certainly will kick back.
~~"Don't crosscut with the rip fence."~~ I hate that phraseology, I'm gonna cross it out, because I've seen an injury caused by it. I enjoyed it a lot at the time because it was my high school bully that hurt himself, but I still learned this lesson: He was manufacturing rectangles of plywood 3.5 inches wide by 2 feet long. He ripped strips of plywood 3.5 inches wide, and then set the fence to 2 feet to cut them to length. I warned him to set up a stop block. He goes off on me about how it's plywood, there's no real grain direction so "crosscut" and "rip" don't mean anything. I go back to what I was doing, not five minutes later I hear his saw strain, I hear a bang, I turn around to see him doubled over hugging a piece of plywood. It has nothing to do with the grain, it has to do with the shape. That same kickback could happen if you're cutting acrylic, which is an amorphous solid.
Don't use the rip fence unless you have AT LEAST 12 inches of contact between the fence and the board/sheet. If you can't do that, you may need to use a sled or a panel cutter instead of the fence.
Start out with basic operations, do a crosscut with the miter gauge, hold the board and the miter gauge with both hands, feed it gently. Then try some rips.
Oh, one final thing about ripping: The edge of the board or sheet that touches the fence must be rather straight, you don't want to put an apprentice's jigsaw job against the fence because the board might not be well constrained, it may pivot and kick back. There are ways to straighten that edge if needed, learn them.
Holy fuck. That intentional accident genuinely upset my stomach. I don't think I know anything about table saw safety. I guess it's good I don't own one but at least now I know what the shark fin is for. I've had my fair share of incidents with chop saws, handheld circular saws, and chainsaw wheels but chop and table saws stills care me more than cutoff wheels.
It's called a riving knife. Sounds like a Klingon wedding implement but it's a massively important safety feature.
If you haven't already, I suggest investing in a good full-face respirator with replaceable cartridges. Something like this:
The half face ones also work well. But melamine dust is nasty. You really don't want to be breathing that in!
I'm fine and I been hack doing it for 35 years! labored breathing
I got my first real table saw
Bought it at the local home store
Played it 'til my fingers bled
Was the summer of 20 26
me and some guys on lemmy
had a group and we tried real hard
Take my upwards chevron, you silly goober.
I'm fucking terrified of this thing.
Good. A healthy respect for the tool will help keep all your digits in tact. Just exercise proper safety precautions every time and you'll be alright. I've got at least one push stick with a notch in it as a constant reminder of why you never put your fingers near the blade.
Yeah, I think the only powertool that I'm more scared of than a table saw is a chainsaw. I guess the day I stop feeling afraid is when I should stop using it.
Routers are pure terror
Modern routers scare me even more. They have things like soft start and such. I've got this little Craftsman cordless palm router, bout it at Lowe's, it's got plenty of power for a trim router, it cuts fine, it's got soft start and it runs quiet when the bit isn't cutting. It's terrifyingly friendly. I'm scared someone out there isn't going to pay it the respect it deserves because of how gentlemanly and courteous it is and end up spraying phalanges across the shop.
I would argue that you should be more wary of the table saw
the chainsaw is farther away from you and you have some time to react. your fingers are right next to a higher speed blade on a table saw and you have no time to react. and you tend to make many more cuts with a table saw than a chainsaw, leading to more opportunities for injuries.
this goes for any tool, but especially table saws: if you're "just making one last cut", stop and take thirty seconds to reset and think about it. do not get complacent.
Lathe. Lathe will fuck you up.
Nah, fear isn't better than complacency because it can also keep you from doing things safely. Like being afraid to have a push tool too close to the blade means not having enough control over the piece you are cutting.
A healthy respect for the dangers and then taking the necessary precautions is the best course of action. Make sure you have the right tools to push stuff through it without needing to have your fingers close. Not the little plastic thing it probably comes with, but a large thing with a wider pushing part so you have more control. Then adjust the height and use the safety thing that keeps it from kicking back for flat stuff.
Chainsaws aren't too bad, just make sure you have the right safety gear. Chaps, ear protection, and eye protection (impact resistant) for most things. Gloves are nice for rough wood and I'd consider a helmet as important as chaps if you're working on trees or anything taller than you.
Power tools are like horses. They can take you anywhere or they can put you in the hospital. Be cautious and be educated.
I think too you should just get over with it and cut one or two fingers straight off. Then the ice has been broken and you can just use it without fear of loosing a finger or two.
That's what they used to tell us when we got a new brass instrument, like a trombone or a tuba. Take your mouthpiece, and put a little ding it, where going to get a ding anyway. That way, you won't be babying it all the time, until you get your first ding. It's really kind of true.
The pro tip is always in the comments.
Let that terror become healthy respect for the danger and start building shit.
;)
Don’t be terrified. Just think before every cut, how the wood will move and where you put your fingers. Get used to not stand behind the saw, you will soon do it automatically. And never do “just a quick cut before I’m done for today”. Those are the most dangerous ones.
That's one beautiful finger amputator you've got there.
I'm a cabinet installer, and I use a table saw every day. Do not put your hand anywhere near the saw blade when it is running. Use push sticks and never pull a part through from the back of the saw. If the cuts are getting harder to make, put a new sharp blade. Dull saw blades are the most dangerous and cause most kickbacks. You're smart to respect the dangers but with care and attention you can use them without much risk.
never pull a part through from the back of the saw.
If I'm ripping long pieces -- long enough that the outfeed end has to be held up -- I will stop about half way and pull the work piece the rest of the way through. I won't do it with short pieces and it's not necessary for those anyway. Are there any safety risks I'm not accounting for?
The risk is that if a kickback occurs while you are gripping on the work piece, it could pull your hand and arm towards the saw. You will not react quickly enough if a kickback happens. That being said, since the parts are longer, if you are keeping your arm far enough away that a kickback couldn't pull you close enough then I could see the cut being done somewhat safely. Still, I would say that an outfeed table or roller stand is a worthy investment to make long cuts easily and safely.
That's what I thought. I don't get anywhere near the saw if I'm pulling material through it for exactly the reason you mentioned. A roller stand would definitely be a better option in my case. All it takes is to be a little careless for a one second one time. Thanks for the feedback!
I use one of these about every day.
I'd suggest three things.
#1 hearing/eye protection.
#2 dust mask(one with filter like trend air stealth mask)
#3 make a cross cut sled. This greatly increased the type of things you can do and they are very safe to use.
Cool workshop
Was going to say with a space like that OP was due.
Thanks. Though the interesting side of it is behind me here.
Wait, why such a sharp and interesting machine on the Dull Men's Club?
Nice saw, don’t cut your fingers off.
I don’t think I’ve ever met a more vicious tool in the home shop than a radial arm saw or table saw. They just want to take a bite out of you, either via the blade itself or kicking some piece of material back hard and fast enough to take a piece of you with it. A table router is second to that.
What you want is a 'push stick.' There are a lot of different form-factors, but this one reminds you why:
I appreciate all the comments here validating OP's trepidation around the table saw. Dull men are cautious, and dull men are way more likely to have all ten fingers.
Get a stop saw installed. They're not super expensive and a hell of a lot cheaper than a ER visit.
Go for it, slow. As a small but determined girl I split quite a number of large-ish boards with a monstrosity of a table saw from the 80s to make beams of the desired width for a tiny house. The important thing is always go slowly. Prepare well. Where is each piece and cutoff going to be at each time of the process. Where are your fingers going to be. Play this through in your mind, only then start cutting. If you cut large pieces build some kind of support they can be pushed onto, falling or hanging heavy pieces are always a bad idea - I also had some wheels screwed onto a support for easier moving of the large stuff. I guess the danger is what makes woodworking so meditative. Lose your attention, lose a finger.
A healthy fear of the table saw is what has kept me safe all these years. Fear it, respect it when you use it.
Exactly, it is when you get complacent that shit happens.
You got ten chances, you can master it by attempt three for sure!
Adding a few bits here:
see that plastic cover over the blade? It will get annoying and you’ll want to remove it. Don’t. That’s like removing the seatbelt from your car. There should only be 2 times where it would be necessary. The first and most common is if the cut you are making requires it (you aren’t sawing all the way through the wood/the work piece cannot fit between the table and the guard). Remember to put it back after. The second is if you’re replacing it with a better one. (Typically seeking better dust collection or a “floating” guard). Usually at that point, it might be good to consider if you’re asking too much for the current saw; there’s no lack of companies and products offering solutions to make your tablesaw “better”.
See the red blade insert? Treat that as your no finger zone. It’s a big area yes, but an accident in that area can equal no fingers.
Over time you’ll develop a “healthy respect” for the tool where you will be able to operate it confidently, while also being aware of what it could do if you let your resolve waiver. The same is true with chainsaws and any other tool.
I’m going to give you 3 resources that really helped me get the most out of mine.
The first two are videos that cover some techniques on zeroing your blade. (Note, mine is belt drive and hangs off the back so it’s slightly different, but a majority of what they cover is for ALL table saws).
Stumpy Nubs - Aligning table saw : This is the only reference I’ve seen outside some much older resources that cover adjusting the table at 45*. This REALLY helps move it from very good to great in my experience.
Workshop Companion - Table Saw Tuning : This is FANTASTIC as the history of the old table saw he’s working on is interesting, and he really explains the why’s behind each adjustment. He has a short about tool vibration where you can see and hear how smoothly you can get an average saw to run. The loudest part on mine is the relay engaging the electric motor now.
Yes, you can get by without spending a weekend tuning and swearing at yourself for wasting your time (theres a period where it absolutely sucks until you’re done), but once you’ve gotten it done and done right, all your cuts will benefit. You’ll have a much more enjoyable time in the shop overall.
The last is a book called The Accurate Tablesaw by Ian J Kirby. This book covers not only some of the topics above, but more on safety and technique. I’ve gotten more out of this book than most other woodworking books I’ve found.
I know the above is a lot (more than I was expecting…) but I DO hope this helps some as you continue your journey. Remember to have fun with it! And reach out if you ever need an ear to bounce ideas off of. I’ll try to not be so long winded next time…!