197
submitted 2 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] venusaur@lemmy.world 116 points 2 months ago

We don’t need more slaves to capitalism.

[-] Drusas@kbin.run 37 points 2 months ago

And that is exactly what they're concerned about.

[-] BobGnarley@lemm.ee 43 points 2 months ago

And yet, not concerned enough to make the quality of life any better where people want to have children. Its like the greed is getting in the way of their ability to be more greedy in the future.

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[-] blandfordforever@lemm.ee 10 points 2 months ago

And a falling human birth rate is good for the environment

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[-] 13esq@lemmy.world 94 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

A man working an average job used to earn enough to buy an average house and comfortably support his wife and kids.

Now you need two people in full-time work just to pay rent to the landlord.

The problem is inequality of wealth and the solution is make work pay.

[-] NABDad@lemmy.world 53 points 2 months ago

No no, you're wrong. The problem is taxes are too high and the people on the absolute top don't get enough money. If we just make them a bit richer, the wealth will finally start trickling down on us.

Wait! I think I feel it trickling down right now!

Nope. Just piss. Again.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

And too many immigrants. Surely if we keep them out, all those low wage manual labor jobs will still get done, and our population will increase

[-] mynachmadarch@kbin.social 8 points 2 months ago

Yeah, Florida just did it wrong. They're not having major farming and trucking issues because they scared away a bunch of immigrants. It'll work this time everywhere else.

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[-] JackFrostNCola@lemmy.world 74 points 2 months ago

I keep hearing stories about falling birth rates, USA, Japan, South Korea, Australia, and on and on.
The articles often pose many questions about why younger generations dont seem to care about having kids, but very few articles actually say the real reasons:

  • Being able to afford a house or stable long term rent without either option competing for money to buy food or other essentials
  • Further to this the cost of a child once you can get by with enough money for the above
  • Climate change & future conditions for their children anxiety
[-] The_v@lemmy.world 36 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The first one is the main reason we could afford to have kids.

We were able to buy our first house because of three things. First the housing market crash in 2008-9. My wife's car was totaled by a rich bitch in a Mercedes. Our rented duplex was robbed and we had renters insurance. The combination of insurance payments and cheaper prices allowed us to purchase our first home.

My house payment hasn't changed since 2009. It made up 36% of our take-home income then. Today it makes up less than 11%. I pay less per month than it costs to rent a 1 bedroom apartment in my area.

The older I get the more I see that landlords are a parasite on society. They extract huge amounts of wealth from the suffering of others.

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[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 19 points 2 months ago

A big one is that pregnancy and child birth SUUUUUCK. Women finally have the ability to avoid it entirely, and I don't blame them.

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[-] HubertManne@kbin.social 7 points 2 months ago

im not sure I would call the last point anxiety. As existential threats go its not like nuclear war. Which might or might not happen based on our actions. Its something that is definately happening and extreme good action by us might mitigate it but we by and large have been taking worse actions or at best our beneficial vs non beneficial actions cancel each other out. Heck even without climate change pollution alone has the same ending.

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[-] BobGnarley@lemm.ee 72 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Lol. How much does it cost to have a child in the hospital in the USA again? Oh, $18,865 you say? Huh. What if they need an ambulance to get there? Oh, $500 to $3000 depending on distance you say? And you say also that US Bureau of Labor and Statistics is letting us know that in four short years our grocery prices have risen 22.04% and are expected to rise another 5.11% per year indefinitely? Meanwhile corporate profits increase every single year and minimum wage has been stagnant for decades? Someone should get them quick!!! I think I figured out why no one wants to have babies anymore! I would like to also comment on how obscenely expensive daycare is and how fucked up it is we have to put children in school 40 hours a week just so we can keep working more than half our lives away but I feel like anyone reading this gets the idea. They will be begging your ass to have babies in the next 100 to 200 years if we make it that long and I'll bet you all those obscene expenses will be an even greater cost to income ratio then, too. I mean if birthrates are a problem you have to ask yourself are they just fucking stupid or just fucking greedy?

[-] figjam@midwest.social 23 points 2 months ago

The future is bleak. The least I can do is not create another person to inflict it on.

[-] sirboozebum@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

While the cost of children, lack of support and stagnant wages are definately a factor, birth rates have declined even in countries where income inequality is lower and support for parents is higher.

It is not going to be an easy problem to solve.

[-] GiuseppeAndTheYeti@midwest.social 11 points 2 months ago

Its not a problem. A consistent population is much easier to plan for financially and socially.

[-] WraithGear@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

Yea it’s only a problem when you need to perpetuate a pirimid scheme.

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[-] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 56 points 2 months ago

Hey GOP assholes, taking away bodily autonomy doesn't get you more babies.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 41 points 2 months ago

you want more kids make houses affordable and give people time off from work.

If you want to further subjugate women so rich people can get away with more creepy sex crimes then you do what the GOP is currently doing.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

Hey, falling birth rate means lots of empty houses. House prices will go down. Problem solved!

[-] hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

Bullshit, we have lots of empty houses now because they are owned by corporations to pad out their balance sheets.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

It was a joke.

[-] hark@lemmy.world 40 points 2 months ago

The capitalist class only cares about birthrate for productivity. Don't blame us for not caring about reduced productivity when most of us get a tiny fraction of the benefits of productivity. Also, what happened to all the shrieking about overpopulation? It's all just fearmongering to drive people to act in ways to benefit the capitalist class. I'm tired, leave me alone.

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[-] Cyv_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 2 months ago

I'd love to have kids. I think it would be wonderful to be able to be a foster parent as another option.

I can't afford it. Its impossible. We can barely afford living as it is. How the fuck am I supposed to raise a kid?

I'm shrugging at falling birth rates not out of indifference, but out of a lack of ability to do anything about it.

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[-] derf82@lemmy.world 29 points 2 months ago

Wealthy employers shrug over falling standard of living and lack of affordable housing and food

[-] shikitohno@lemm.ee 29 points 2 months ago

I can't understand why anyone would expect most people to want to have kids. I can hardly afford to take care of myself, things look like they're only likely to get worse, and all indicators are that if I did have kids, they would be facing an even worse future when they hit adulthood. Why would I do that to them?

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

I have kids. I love my kids, and being a parent is the best decision I ever made for myself.

I can't say I would recommend it, though.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

I am also a parent who dearly loves my daughter (it's her 14th birthday tomorrow!) but I don't want anyone to have kids who isn't willing to take the time and the effort and spend the money.

No child should be unloved or neglected.

[-] Today@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago

My kids don't want kids. I'm cool with that. It's not my decision and I'm definitely not interested in playing grandma daycare.

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[-] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 25 points 2 months ago

If young Americans had financial stability, better mental health, hope for the future, etc. I'm sure that birth rate would go back up.

It's not like people don't enjoy fucking anymore. It's just that they're more careful than ever not to reproduce, because they can't afford parenthood.

[-] Aidinthel@reddthat.com 24 points 2 months ago

If politicians want people to have more children, maybe they could do something to make having kids less ruinously-expensive.

[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago

Even if I could afford to have kids (which I can't) or believed in forcing anyone to have to be alive without consent (which is impossible), there's no way I could ethically justify making somebody have to live in what is probably The last century ever of human civilization.

[-] 3volver@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

I'm very happy that I don't have kids. I still have no idea what compels people to have kids these days. They must not know the things I know.

[-] squeakycat@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Every now and then I see a parent having a tender moment with their child and I smile. I then reflect on whether my vasectomy/shirk of parenthood was the right choice.

I always come to the conclusion that it was. Perhaps when I'm older I will feel differently but I just can't imagine that in my life for a long time.

[-] Default_Defect@midwest.social 8 points 2 months ago

having a tender moment with their child and I smile

Worst case scenario for me is I go "kidnap" my niece and nephew for a weekend and get it out of my system.

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[-] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

Fewer people means increased wages. Fuck em.

[-] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

The only reason economists say immigration can offset falling birthrate. Is because the system is designed for low wages to keep the system running

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[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 months ago

As a species we have the tools, technology, education, knowledge, cognition, and intelligence to override an animal instinct to reproduce willy nilly. We're more than that now. People should know what it means to choose to have children and weigh the benefits vs the costs to their lives.

Have children when you want to and when it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, then don't do it. Humanity will survive thinning down to many billions fewer humans sitting around consuming resources. A person who never existed in the first place because healthy adults decided to put their time and resources into something else shouldn't be lamented, but a choice respected.

My family has a long history of not having many children. Our family tree is one of marrying in people and then just not growing larger generation to generation. We have plenty of childless couples in the tree and they make the coolest aunts and uncles a kid can have.

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[-] no_comment@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago
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[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Uh yeah, that'll happen when we are financially ruined for life and facing an ever worsening climate disaster because of greedy pieces of shit. If we can't reliably support ourselves, how can we support children?

Just what the fuck are we supposed to do with that???

[-] whotookkarl@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Don't play the game if it's rigged

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[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

That's fewer kids on my damn lawn! (shakes fist)

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[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Theme to lean into: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement

Get all your right wing nutcase friends to have more babies “for the cause”, then get all your left wing nutcase friends to have more babies because “oh noes, Project 2025”. Pretty soon your social security will be funded and you can retire in peace, far from either

[-] brlemworld@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Or instead of overpopulating we can increase immigration to fund social security without having to wait multiple decades.

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[-] son_named_bort@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

There's over 300 million people in the US, I'm not at all concerned about falling birth rates.

[-] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 12 points 2 months ago

Wonder how nice it would be not to put 0‐20% of your income into a 401k. Or the money I need to put into a HSA in case I get destroyed in medical bills. Or crippling student debt. Maybe that money could go into housing or children.

[-] HubertManne@kbin.social 12 points 2 months ago

Definately not me. Im cheering it.

[-] pyrflie@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago

¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

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this post was submitted on 30 May 2024
197 points (95.0% liked)

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