91

Leftists who don’t like Biden don’t want to see him in office again, so they don’t want to vote for him, or they want to withhold their vote until he changes course. Seems simple enough.

But that’s not how politics works.

So announcing that you'll vote for him no matter what he does will make him change course? Is that how politics works?

Never, in the history of this country, has there been a president who hasn’t engaged in what the left would regard as unforgivable crimes. This is the nature of presidents, and politicians in general. If you, like me, are on the far left, you should never fully trust or have faith in any elected official.

But when I look at the Biden administration, I see a group of people who can be bullied in a leftist direction on some policy priorities.

lenin-laugh

Can anyone today truly argue that the world wasn’t drastically changed by Gore’s loss in 2000? Even if you don’t accept the argument that Nader’s candidacy is what lost Gore the election, how can you argue that the world wouldn’t have been at least a little better if all of those Nader votes had gone to Gore and put the Dems over the top?

Democrats have held the presidency 50% of the time since 2000.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 63 points 1 month ago

Ah yes just what I need. A corporate media entity telling me how I NEED to think. Thank you slate very cool

[-] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 29 points 1 month ago

Perhaps in response to your concerns the headline has now changed to "The Leftist Case for Voting—Yes, Even for Biden"

[-] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 35 points 1 month ago

I find it fascinating how every 4 years major media makes the exact same Leftist case for voting, and it is literally never "Look at all of the wonderful progressive things the Dems have done!" and instead is always "well MAYBE you MIGHT get SOMETHING done with the Dems but you'll DEFINITELY get NOTHING done with the GOP!"

Interesting that they are completely incapable of making any other case.

[-] Adkml@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago

It's also not compromising when one side has to keep making sacrifices for decades and the other side not only won't concede anything but will shiv you if you try to do something for yourself.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago

When Biden was elected someone here made a post I cannot find with a timeline about how the Democrats would respond to critiques - something like "2021: It's too early to criticize him, let's give him a chance"; "2022: We have to win the midterms before we can criticize Biden"; "2023: The election's coming up, now is not the time"; etc.

It's been the same since 2000 and they've never changed the script.

[-] culpritus@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

the sub header is a trip:

We need to think about this election differently. Just ask Trotsky.

So the article is doing a Vote Blue No Matter Who Blue MAGA move, but also says you should vote for (and bully) your preferred enemy. jesse-wtf

The point of electoral politics, as it is lived, is not to vote for a friend; it’s to vote for your preferred enemy. You will never find a morally pure candidate, or one whose positions perfectly align with your own preferences. So you must find one whom you can effectively bully.

That's what real leftists are doing right now! Trying to bully the Dems/Biden is what has been happening, and this dorks just tell us we are helping Trump.

Deeply Unserious.

[-] CommunistBear@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago

it’s to vote for your preferred enemy

Iirc liberals were cool with burning police stations when Trump was in office and were actively opposed to putting children in cages at the border. That disappeared the moment Biden went into the office. Sounds like Trump might be the preferred enemy then thinking-about-it

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] WhyEssEff@hexbear.net 59 points 1 month ago

fellow-kids how do you do, fellow leftists

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Dimmer06@hexbear.net 55 points 1 month ago

I love when these people bring up the Weimar Republic as a reason to vote for their guy. They always leave out that their guy is the stand in for Hindenburg.

[-] Ossay@hexbear.net 40 points 1 month ago

classic example of people voting for the "lesser evil" and then the "lesser evil" invited the wolves into his government

maybe-later-kiddo "this is why you need to vote for the lesser evil"

[-] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago

maybe-later-honey Don't blame me, I voted for Himmler

[-] EmoThugInMyPhase@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In any other country, Trump would’ve been thrown in prison and every person who stepped foot inside the capitol would’ve been hanged. In America, Trump gets to play golf for three years while being protected by security paid by taxpayers, and after being convicted he still gets to run as president and the opposition legitimizes his campaign by treating him as a genuine political opponent instead of the rogue fascist threat they claim he is

[-] emizeko@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago

I dunno, a state using even the tiniest amount of power against the bourgeoisie sounds pretty aUtHoRiTaRiAn

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] niph@hexbear.net 54 points 1 month ago

Didn’t Gore lose because the Republicans literally stole ballot boxes in Florida or some shit?

[-] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 44 points 1 month ago

Gore lost because he refused to fight even though he won the election.

Clinton lost because the Democrats refused to abolish the electoral college in the intervening years.

Biden will lose (among many other reasons) because he's refusing to "defend democracy" or whatever he said his must-pass (didn't-pass) voting reform bill was supposed to be.

They only care about lecturing people who won't vote for them, but they won't do anything for those votes and they won't do anything with those votes.

[-] niph@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago

The most frustrating thing to me is that it’s not like they can’t do anything. When it comes to, say, orchestrating the primaries candidates to prevent Bernie from winning, they are incredibly efficient and ruthless. They just refuse to do anything about the slide into fascism

[-] Kuori@hexbear.net 35 points 1 month ago

brooks brothers riot, yeah

[-] Adkml@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago

Yup that wad another example of the Republicans successfully employing the "what the fuck are you gonna do about it" method of politics.

It's all very complicated and not just the exact same as high-school drama bullshit.

[-] MaxOS@hexbear.net 49 points 1 month ago

TLDR: genocide is a forgivable crime

[-] JayTreeman@hexbear.net 39 points 1 month ago

I saw someone on a defedetated from hexbear instance state 'biden is a good man'... Not only is genocide forgivable, but you can still be a good person while doing it

[-] Deadend@hexbear.net 24 points 1 month ago

Genocide is just a job.

Watch ‘Zone of Interest’ you’ll see the Nazis running the Holocaust factory are just normal people who love their children and spouse.

It’s FINE! He feels sad about it.

[-] SacredExcrement@hexbear.net 48 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's amazing how refusing to endorse Genocide Joe is breaking so many liberal brains.

If you, like me, are on the far left, you should never fully trust or have faith in any elected official.

If you have read ANY theory on electoralism, you will understand why this entire essay is a pile of stupidity. Lenin's thoughts on electoralism (from my understanding) were that it should be earnestly engaged in to show people the futility of it as a vehicle for meaningful change in a capitalist society.

This is some idiot that thinks voting for Bernie in a primary makes them a raging communist.

[-] emizeko@hexbear.net 37 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If you, like me, are on the far left

[babby's first electoralism]

jesus fucking christ

[-] SacredExcrement@hexbear.net 35 points 1 month ago

I wonder how much of an impact conservatives calling them commies for decades has had on their perception of where they actually are lol

These days when I meet someone and they say they're a 'leftist' without specifying anything else, I just immediately assume they're a very confused liberal.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 43 points 1 month ago

Always boils down to "I don't see Palestinians as human beings, now stop whining"

[-] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 24 points 1 month ago

. . . Biden, who has been tepid (at best) on core left priorities like restraining state violence, defending abortion, enshrining trans rights, and—perhaps most importantly—stopping the carnage in Palestine.

No, no, you see, he hasn't been doing the genocide, he's tepidly not stopping the carnage.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] WhatDoYouMeanPodcast@hexbear.net 42 points 1 month ago

Never, in the history of this country, has there been a president who hasn’t engaged in what the left would regard as unforgivable crimes.

so-you-agree so you agree that the dissolution of the US would make the US cease to do unforgivable crimes?

[-] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 1 month ago

"Obviously every president in US history is probably unforgivable, but here's why you should forgive Biden."

[-] Sickos@hexbear.net 42 points 1 month ago

Hell yeah I vote

[-] sovietknuckles@hexbear.net 42 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Leon Trotsky himself urged the German Communists to reconsider their foolish pride in 1931. “Should fascism come to power, it will ride over your skulls and spines like a terrific tank,” he declared, accurately. “Your salvation lies in merciless struggle. And only a fighting unity with the Social Democratic workers can bring victory. Make haste, worker-Communists, you have very little time left!”

Ah yes, because Nazis came into power because of communists, and not because social democrats sided with Nazis against communists

[-] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago

The more I read from Trotsky, especially from his post Civil-War period, the more I realize how much leniency he was given by the Bolsheviks.

[-] Poison_Ivy@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago

Leftists have the curse of being Cassandra and helplessly and accurately predicting the future and being unable to change it

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] footfaults@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

stopping the carnage in Palestine

The only thing I'm going to be stopping, is reading the rest of this article.

Weasel words, can't even say Genocide can they?

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Tomboymoder@hexbear.net 39 points 1 month ago

electoralists love to say stuff like : "we will push Biden left after the election and then don't push Biden left after the election"

[-] SacredExcrement@hexbear.net 42 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

We can push him left after the election <--- You are here

No you can't push him left now, it's too soon

No you can't push him left now, we need to worry about midterms

No you can't push him left now, that will make him look weak

No you can't push him left now, we're too close to an election and it will scare off voters

Repeat until everyone is dead

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Dr_Gabriel_Aby@hexbear.net 39 points 1 month ago

As a leftist, I wholeheartedly believe in revolutionary defeatism. I’m not trying to build the best empire, I am hoping to end imperialism.

If you are okay with imperialism than you are not my ally.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Cowbee@hexbear.net 35 points 1 month ago

"Just one more dem presidency" is the same as "just one more lane." Doesn't come close to solving the core issues.

[-] TechnoUnionTypeBeat@hexbear.net 32 points 1 month ago

Never, in the history of this country, has there been a president who hasn’t engaged in what the left would regard as unforgivable crimes. This is the nature of presidents, and politicians in general

This is the nature of presidents, and politicians in general

I see a group of people who can be bullied in a leftist direction on some policy priorities.

So is it in the nature of politicians to be unforgivable forces of evil or are they able to be nudged in a direction

These are contradictory ideas

[-] save_vs_death@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago

in bad country china you can only vote for the one guy pre-approved by the central party, unlike in amerikkka where we have freedom

[-] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Leftists who don’t like Biden don’t want to see him in office again, so they don’t want to vote for him, or they want to withhold their vote until he changes course. Seems simple enough.

But that’s not how politics works.

The point of electoral politics, as it is lived, is not to vote for a friend; it’s to vote for your preferred enemy. You will never find a morally pure candidate, or one whose positions perfectly align with your own preferences.

By that reasoning I should vote for Trump because Trump is my preferred enemy. A Democratic fascist gets the complacent libs on board with fascism. A Republican fascist shakes the libs to a lower level of complacency and they'll at least do something, albeit ineffective, and then a few defect to the Left when they see that their pussycat pussyhat protests got nothing done.

So you must find one whom you can effectively bully.

Well that isn't Biden or any of the corporate Dems. The more we pressure them to stop being ghouls the more they double down. When pushed, they side with fascism instead of joining us in opposing fascism.

When I was 14 years old, I was a huge fan of Ralph Nader. As a teenage anti-sweatshop activist, I believed that he was the only candidate in the 2000 presidential election who was speaking the truth and advocating for my policy goals. I went to a Nader rally in my hometown of Chicago, where the great journalist Studs Terkel spoke. I’ll never forget what he said in his nasal bark: “Gore or Bush, what’s your choice? Influenza or pneumonia, what’s your choice?”

It all sounds like nonsense to me now. Can anyone today truly argue that the world wasn’t drastically changed by Gore’s loss in 2000? Even if you don’t accept the argument that Nader’s candidacy is what lost Gore the election, how can you argue that the world wouldn’t have been at least a little better if all of those Nader votes had gone to Gore and put the Dems over the top?

You know I had this conversation with my parents (who grew up outside the US and so got to watch it on the world stage from a third world perspective) around 2008. They swore Gore would have been as bad as Bush when it came to war because the US doesn't really change its foreign policy no matter which party is in charge, and that Obama was going to be more of the same. I couldn't wrap my head around it then but watching Obama continue the War on Terror despite campaigning on "Change" showed me they were right.

The author of this article was more mature as a 14-year old than she is now.

In Weimar Germany, where the German Communist Party was far more robust and ready to fight in the streets, the revolution-oriented strategy—allowing a fascist victory to raise urgency and bring about a more lasting leftist one—didn’t work. Infamously, in the fateful early years of the 1930s, the German Communists viciously opposed the governing center-left Social Democratic Party. Calling the centrists “Social Fascists,” they declared that there was no substantive difference between liberalism and Nazism. They refused to ally themselves with the center.

They didn't allow a fascist victory, the liberals did and in so doing proved the communists right

Leon Trotsky himself

God damn I try not to be sectarian but I don't think I have ever seen a good take from someone who respects Trotsky.

Workers of the world, unite with your liberal foes; if you do not, you have everything to lose

Oh how twee, how clever to co-opt a revolutionary communist slogan of liberation and funnel it into supporting the genocidal forces of capitalism. Anyway to address the substance of what she's saying, see the Weimar Republic when the liberals betrayed the Communists. See the 2016 election where even though so many Bernard (gender neutral) Brethren did end up voting for the Democrats' war criminal candidate that she won the popular vote, the liberals turned against the progressives and leftists and blamed them for their loss, when the liberals are the ones who chose to run one of the most uncharismatic and hated war criminals as their candidate. Liberals consistently snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, then blame it on the Left, then side with their fascist friends against the Left. If every leftist voted for Genocide Joe and he lost anyway, they'd do it to us again. If every leftist voted for Genocide Joe and he won because of it, they would still keep attacking us. You can't reason with these people; they don't want to be reasoned to, they don't want to look at truth or what's moral, they just want to keep going to brunch and repeatedly spread covid to the waitstaff.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Sasuke@hexbear.net 29 points 1 month ago

Just ask Trotsky

pika-pickaxe

[-] BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net 28 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

can be bullied in a leftist direction

mfers will say this but not give the method of bullying/negotiation tactics, nor what concessions they think are winnable and it pisses me off.

I think its because they know what is realistically winnable would sound pathetic. "Oh uh, maybe he'll make weed schedule 3 instead of 1!"

[-] D61@hexbear.net 24 points 1 month ago

Me Remembering: Contrapoints doing the "vote blue no matter who" voter shaming video back in 2020, using the argument for pushing biden left, and posting zero videos in 4 years to organize or agitate for any portion of her US audience to actually engage in activities to push biden to the left.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[-] Findom_DeLuise@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago
[-] Wolfman86@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago

This is a bit late consisering some countries have already had an election.

[-] MaxOS@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago
[-] Chronicon@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

So announcing that you'll vote for him no matter what he does will make him change course? Is that how politics works?

No no no, how politics works is you never make any demands and just throw the lever for the "better" (on paper, in rhetoric) candidate once every 4 years. Actually expecting to achieve things? That's just idealistic wishful thinking

[-] ExotiqueMatter@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

But when I look at the Biden administration, I see a group of people who can be bullied in a leftist direction on some policy priorities.

Your vote is the only thing you as a citizen have that the Democrats need to get, there is literally nothing else you have that could make the Democrats care about your opinion because there is nothing else you have that they need. Which means that your vote is the only thing they will have to trade concessions against if enough peoples threaten to not give it to them. Knowing that, how the heck do you plan to "bully them in a leftist direction" without withholding your vote?

HOW DO YOU PLAN TO BULLY THEM IN A LEFTIST DIRECTION WITHOUT WITHHOLDING YOUR VOTE MOTHERFUCKER!!!

[-] Barx@hexbear.net 21 points 1 month ago

The article is just, "we can move him left".

Buddy, he's committing a genocide in an election year and his response is to lie about it and help put those against it in jail.

Nevermind that even if you are incredibly cynical, you lose all credibility as a left advocate by in any way supporting him. Or that by vote shaming you are feeding into numerous falsehoods about effective political work that are in no way "leftist".

Anyways this is just a liberal trying to appeal to other liberals that can't stomach Biden. Be a good sheep. "Leftism" has nothing to do with it.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] EmoThugInMyPhase@hexbear.net 20 points 1 month ago

But that’s not how politics works.

Correct. Liberal democracy only cares about your opinions if you have the money to back it up.

If you, like me, are on the far left, you should never fully trust or have faith in any elected official.

Correct. So far so go-

But when I look at the Biden administration, I see a group of people who can be bullied in a leftist direction on some policy priorities.

internet-delenda-est

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
91 points (96.9% liked)

the_dunk_tank

15830 readers
394 users here now

It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 3: No sectarianism.

Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)

Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.

Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.

Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this. Posts that do not meet this requirement can be posted to !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml

Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS