252
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 64 points 2 weeks ago

Fuck Assad, he could have simply chosen to not order shooting at peaceful protesters in 2011 and overseen a peaceful transition to democracy. Instead, he chose death and destruction for millions of people. He deserves everything that’s coming to him, and Syrians everywhere have every right to celebrate tonight.

The future is uncertain: this is what freedom looks like. My entire heart goes out to the Syrian people. Hopefully the maniacs leading the HTS and the SNA will not manage to smother them.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 2 weeks ago

Why are the HTS maniacs again?

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The are a rebranding of Al-Nusra, a split of Al-Quaeda.

This is their leader: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Mohammad_al-Julani

They are putting on a "moderate" face, it remains to be seen if they mean it.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 2 weeks ago

The are a rebranding of Al-Nusra, a split of Al-Quaeda.

They're a split of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, who was mostly (or only??? Idk) fighting the US invasion, so that doesn't say much. Also from what I have read they've been keeping their promise of civil liberties in their territories. So what I want to say is: Have they done something or does anyone who's not secular enough qualify as a maniac?

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

We are not talking about "not secular enough" here, we are talking about Al-Quaeda, get a grip. The leader guy had made an oath of allegiance to al-Zawahiri. Al-Nusra at times collaborated (and tbf also fought against) ISIS. They were also responsible for war crimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nusra_Front#War_crimes

Regardless, like I also said they are putting on a moderate face and say they are different now. But minority groups in Syria are rightly feeling threatened. We'll find out soon enough it seems.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 2 weeks ago

We are not talking about "not secular enough" here, we are talking about Al-Quaeda, get a grip.

Again, we're talking about Al-Qaeda in Iraq, and the now leader/founder of HTS joined them to fight against the US invasion of Iraq. Not saying they're good guys or not, but in this context "they're Al-Qaeda" isn't saying much. This sort of bad word logic doesn't really check out with reality.

They were also responsible for war crimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nusra_Front#War_crimes

Okay fair enough that's maniac material. That said, don't they have a good enough track record as HTS starting 2017?

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago

Well, you know the movie reference: Illinois Nazis, I hate Illinois Nazis.

Anyway, we'll find out soon enough what these guys are.

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 0 points 2 weeks ago

Minority groups in Aleppo welcomed them and said they feels safe. Whether this will last has yet to manifest, but probably the main dividing line would be Sunni-Shia.

Also protection of minorities is a fundamental islamic value. People like Daesh bastardize Islam.

[-] hark@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

overseen a peaceful transition to democracy

Paving the way for outside actors to mess with those elections. Look at how much democracy Lebanon has with all its parties and yet it's a giant mess. Americans complain about Russian interference in US elections but somehow don't understand how that problem is far worse in a country with a tiny fraction of the resources that the US has. In fact, the US would be one of those outside actors trying to influence the elections, which they've done for many decades now in many different countries.

The future is uncertain: this is what freedom looks like. My entire heart goes out to the Syrian people. Hopefully the maniacs leading the HTS and the SNA will not manage to smother them.

This is what freedom for the most brutal looks like. The most brutal tend to be religious fanatics because they think they have God on their side and they're willing to die for their cause. You can guarantee that whoever comes out on top will be establishing an ultraconservative theocracy and things will be worse for the Syrian people (except for those who are into that shit, maybe).

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago

Respectfully, that's a load of nonsense:

Paving the way for outside actors to mess with those elections.

So? If potential future foreign interference is a legitimate reason to NOT have democracy at all, then ALL democracy becomes impossible. You're basically making the argument that democracy is impossible so Syrians should never ask for democratic reforms because ...if they do sometime in the future some external actor might try to influence their election?

And it's actually worse than that. They asked for democracy and they got bullets, chemical warfare and over a decade of destruction and dispossession. Was the threat of some potential election meddling that horrible that all of that is preferable? Ask any Syrian refugee in Lebanon if they wouldn't trade the destruction of their country with Lebanon's broken sectarian system.

Ultimately you're making an argument that either they should have 100% of a good thing or 0% of the thing AND brutality for asking for the thing in the first place. And that's utterly nonsensical.

You can guarantee that whoever comes out on top will be establishing an ultraconservative theocracy and things will be worse for the Syrian people

You actually cannot "guarantee" it. It is a possibility, but there are no guarantees. You can be pessimistic of course. But history never guarantees anything. I mentioned elsewhere in the thread that by "freedom", I was referring to this particular moment right here, where nothing is for sure and things could go to the better or the worse. RIGHT NOW, there is uncertainty. Even if tomorrow HTS tries to enforce a khalifate or whatever shit, right now, this is a moment of freedom for Syrians. Just look at what they are saying. You can't deny what you see. They are saying that after decades they are able to finally breathe. The future IS open, but not guaranteed.

load more comments (8 replies)
[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 weeks ago

This is not "what freedom looks like" this is "what a violent rebellion looks like". There are good odds that the new regime will be as bad or even worse. People who overthrow a power with military force aren't often interested in sharing that power afterwards.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago

The other option: overthrow the violent regime with magic.

[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

I don't know what to tell you - people always think there must be a "good" option, and if the current one is bad then any other option must therefore be good.

This could also be a radical regime like the Taliban that could actually be worse for most people.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

What about this: the status quo under Assad with houndred of thousands tortured and murdered is bad enough to try to change it.

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 2 weeks ago

This is untrue considering their track record after the rebranding from Al-Nusra to HTS. They're not spawning out of thin air.

[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 weeks ago

What is untrue? My concern? How can my concern be "untrue?"

The skills needed to be a revolutionary are very different from the skills needed to govern. Remember when the taliban was "kinder and softer" for a few months?

I'll be happy if my concern is misplaced. But time will tell.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 2 weeks ago

How can my concern be "untrue?"

The idea that they "could be" ignores the fact that they've been actively governing their territories since (and before, I guess) 2017, and they haven't started a Taliban-style brutal regime there. I mean I guess it's not impossible for them to suddenly change their style of governing, but what I'm trying to say that they have a track record we can use to try and predict their future behavior.

[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 weeks ago

So maybe next time have a conversation rather than just telling somebody "that's untrue"? No need to be weirdly adversarial...

That said - you raise some good points. I'm not ignoring anything though. You're acting like my "concern" is saying "things will go bad" when it's not.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 2 weeks ago

So maybe next time have a conversation rather than just telling somebody "that's untrue"? No need to be weirdly adversarial...

That... is fair enough.

I'm not ignoring anything though. You're acting like my "concern" is saying "things will go bad" when it's not.

Wasn't my intention to be adversarial but that is also fair enough.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I mean very narrowly this moment right now. This moment of uncertainty where anything is possible. This is what freedom looks like: anything is possible, the best and the worst.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 54 points 2 weeks ago

This is for sure a byproduct of the war in Ukraine. This really shows Russia’s weakness.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 40 points 2 weeks ago

This is a huge loss for Russia too. Any smaller country considering joining (or staying in) Russia's sphere of influence for security just saw one of their peers get exiled from their country by its populous.

I believe Syria also has Russia's only friendly port in the Mediterranean. If that base falls to rebels that would be a huge blow to Russia's ability to project power over the region.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

Ha ha and their only warm water port, except that in Kaliningrad, which, thanks to putin, is now incercled by the NATO alliance lol.

[-] Maalus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Kaliningrad was encircled anyway. Unless you mean Lake NATO.

[-] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 2 weeks ago

this is flight path of that plane, it crashed in the mountains

he's dead

[-] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The article mentions he did an abrupt U turn, before "disappearing off the map". No mention of crashes or problems. Couldn't they have just turned off the comms and transponder? These sites normally project the path the airplane will take until the next update from the plane.

[-] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 23 points 2 weeks ago

Turning in a circle while turning off the transponder would seem to be a sensible thing if you suddenly realise people could be viewing your projected route..

[-] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

altitude decreased at 15ft/s before disappearing at 1500ish ft, and few minutes later syrian army command informed officers about fall of regime

i don't think they just faked it, there's also no airport there and emergency landing in terrain like this is, i think, quite extravagant option

[-] lennybird@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

That will be one piece of good news this year if he is dead. Fuck that piece of shit. We should've listened to our Syrian ambassador Robert Ford and fully supported the FSA.

[-] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 weeks ago

Give him state funeral because a lot of people would like to be sure that he's dead

[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Sic semper tyrannis

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

The news from only a day ago is already out of date wow.

People thought this was gonna be some extended situation but they really did sweep in only a matter of days.

[-] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 11 points 2 weeks ago

There are some reports he was shot down.

By the Russians lol.

[-] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

"Sergei... Are we the bad guys?"

"I don't even know anymore, Ivan"

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

That would be the funniest shit if true.

[-] perestroika@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

If it were true (currently I don't think so) we'd have a warm spot on FIRMS and civilian reports of a transport plane coming down, but nobody has reported one so far. (However, Syria is likely to have so many warm spots currently that a private researcher may be unable to count them and make sense.)

However, assassinating someone with an air defense complex while retreating / evacuating yourself in face of an advancing opponent - that's unreliable. (Russians were last seen evacuating their air defense systems and flying away with what could be taken along, but rebels did get some really interesting items.)

[-] perestroika@lemm.ee 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Good riddance and hopefully Bashar al Assad is found and brought back for fair and prolonged trial (because his list of deeds is long, and he needs to testify).

I suspect he'd easily get the maximum punishment available, in any reasonably balanced justice system on the planet. A dictator on trial would also be a cautionary example for future dictators.

However, given that he's not entirely out of resources, I think he may temporarily slip away into a country that agrees to host him.

About things in Syria: I worry that civil war isn't over. Judging by the fighting in Manbij, one faction of the rebels (SNA) is now attemping to conquer territory from the SDF (Autonomous Administration of North-Eastern Syria). Unlike the government, the SDF however isn't demoralized - they aren't fighting for dictator Assad, but democracy and autonomy, and they can be expected to mount an effective resistance.

I hope that someone reminds the parties to the conflict that they need to stop and negotiate really soon now.

[-] doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago

I'll confess, I'm embarrassingly uninformed on Assad and the broader situation in Syria. Anybody have any good resources to get a basic understanding?

[-] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

He'll come back in several pieces probably.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2024
252 points (99.2% liked)

World News

39378 readers
3246 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS