I said this in our DM, so I'll say it publicly. I used to be a step parent. One day, my ex's sister got arrested and I became a parent to an extra kid over night. We needed hundreds of dollars to make him comfortable, and just to keep him out of state custody (drug tests, handling old traffic tickets, ect.). We got that money mostly from here. Between family and Hexbear, we got an extra $500 that week and we used every cent. Just the drug tests for the courts were $60 a person. Yes, there were resources for foster parents that we got access to later on, but those took months to access. We got his Christmas with those, and we were hit with this the day before Halloween. There's no reason to arbitrarily cap how much people can need/give, that's between the people who give and receive.

Yes to all except the amount cap. The problem isn't so much the amounts requested but the frequency of those requests overshadowing other people who also need help. If someone really needs a large amount with a good justification, it would be a shame to limit the help we can give them.

This all seems like it's going to make it so difficult. I was first directed to mutual aid by someone I met on a suicide pact forum. I was on there asking for someone to help me commit suicide because I was so desperate due to my financial situation. Benefits stopped, overdraft maxxed out, rent debt racking up, no money, just a huge pile of debt. With no money for food I'd been trying to use the food bank, but it was awful. To try and prevent people using it if they don't need it, they have strict rules in place. The main one is that you have to be referred there from someone like your GP or citizens advice, someone who can vouch for you that you really are in need. This means needing a GP or citizens advice appointment, even if it's just a phone appointment to explain and prove your circumstances, it could be a really long wait for the appointment or phone call. Then needing to wait for the actual food bank appointment. The amount of food the food bank gives was never enough to last while trying to get referrals and appointments to go back again. I was hungry regularly. So much so that I was trying to get help to end my life and tried selling my prescription meds online as I had no other source of income. Someone on the suicide forum told me about mutual aid, that's how I came to be here. And while I do sometimes have to make multiple posts to get a response, it's still so much easier and quicker than the food bank. My worry is if you add these extra rules it is going to become as difficult to get help here as it was from the food bank. And for me, as well as many others, this is the last chance saloon. We have nowhere else to turn. Making it harder here could be the final straw for many people.

seems like a lot of overcorrection that gets in the way of helping people who actually need.

do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount requested?

No, users' needs will often vary; limits like this will cause problems.

do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount of posts?

This may make sense, but the Active sort definitely incentivizes posts every 6 to 8 hours instead, and I don't see an easy way around that, unfortunately. I defer to others' opinions on this one.

do you think mods should keep track of amounts received via user reports after donating?

On the one hand this sounds like a decent system; on the other hand the potential for abuse does exist. But if people want to try it out, and mods are okay with doing their part, I'd be willing to participate.

do you think we change the name from mutual_aid to emergency aid?

Not really, it kinda seems pedantic to me.

do you think we should allow meta posts?

Yes; otherwise there is no way to criticize bad actors, and I am of the opinion that the recent meta post, which I believe prompted this one, was valuable and helpful to the community.

don't limit the amount requested

Here is my public position.

• do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount requested?

No.

• do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount of posts?

No.

• do you think mods should keep track of amounts received via user reports after donating?

No.

• do you think we change the name from mutual_aid to emergency aid?

Put it to a vote.

• do you think we should allow meta posts?

No, put it to a vote.

• users communicate if they are open to non monetary resources (local aid groups, etc.)

Unnecessary. This already occurs when requested.

• user requests aid, amount requested in title using [$0/$x] format

No. Add rule to ask to voluntarily do so if it fits the context of their needs.

• user updates title with amount received and the thread is locked when the goal is met

No to a hard rule. Yes as a voluntary obligation to requestors as they are able to and no unless specifically requested.

Limiting the amount requested is a fucking awful idea

• do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount requested?

No

• do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount of posts?

Yes, I think once a day or every other day is fine, multiple times a day is too much and I feel like it drowns out other requestors

• do you think we change the name from mutual_aid to emergency aid?

Yes, words mean things.

• do you think we should allow meta posts?

No, if this means posts within the comm about issues like this. It seems to just cause a lot of tension and regardless of how I might feel about what goes on in this particular comm, the passive aggressiveness that has been prevalent on this site more recently feels terrible. I can't imagine how it must feel for the people who are being called out, either.

IF meta posts were to stay I think they shouod be strictly moderated and there would need to be ground rules for participation. The personal attacks are outta control

I have not properly investigated the conditions that led to this discussion, but:

do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount requested?

No.

do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount of posts?

No.

do you think mods should keep track of amounts received via user reports after donating?

That seems messy and inconvenient, no. Honor system.

do you think we change the name from mutual_aid to emergency aid?

No.

do you think we should allow meta posts?

More meta posts about doing things IRL to help alleviate the root causes of poverty.

- users can post 3 times a week, asks no more than 100$ each post

I don’t like the idea of setting a limit on dollar amount. That would be a huge setback for users who are asking for help with things like rent, bills, and losing your house to an IDF terror attack.

As for limiting # of posts per week, I think the problem of visibility on that comm needs to be looked at: even before I ruined it for everyone, I noticed that donations would dry up the moment my post got too old and stopped being “hot,” even with a lot of bumps.

I’ll address the other stuff after I take a nap.

What is the thinking behind no more than $100 per post? What if someone is in an emergency that needs more than that, or the refugees who advertise their gofundmes? I think this rule would screw many desperate people over. How does this work with people who use other currencies?

Also I don't agree with having to request an amount in the title - I ask for food vouchers and will take whatever someone can give. I often have to make multiple posts before getting a response so i don't want to be limited by how much I can ask for or I'll end up with not enough to tide me over from last time while i wait for a response.

What are meta posts?

Why are all these changes wanted?

As far as keeping track, I've found (since i ask for food vouchers that can be donated anonymously) some people prefer to remain anonymous, so they probably wouldn't report anyway. Also very dangerous - for instance, I got trolled on lemmy by someone who kept saying (for weeks) they would send aid but didn't. He got banned. But people like him want to make life worse for people who need help. They would anonymously report to the mods that they had sent us money, when they actually hadn't.

Weekly limit on amount of posts - this would prevent people from getting the help they need. It took me about 4 posts to get the help I need this time. I had nowhere else to turn.

All in all I think these changes will remove the only lifeline left for some desperate people.

The only change I want to see is the ability to reply in-thread removed. I, and several other people here, have had people comment in our threads saying they're going to help, and then they don't help. Other people see their reply, think we've already been helped and then don't offer any help. It costs us help we would have had from other people.

This is my reply to the dm, which I'm also going to post here.

Are you happy with the community as it currently is?

No. It isn't very effective at getting aid.

users can post 3 times a week, asks no more than 100$ each post

3 times a week is too few and $100 ain't shit. If there's to be a money limit, it needs to be much higher.

display name is changed to "emergency aid"

No opinion.

users communicate if they are open to non monetary resources (local aid groups, etc.)

Good idea. Only if the user communicates it. No unsolicited offers, because 9 times out of 10 they probably won't help.

user requests aid, amount requested in title using [$0/$x] format

I usually do this anyway. I think it's a good idea.

users donate and report the post with the amount donated, mods note it or report it with a message indicating they donated so a mod can comment

Potentially good idea, but unless they provide receipts I don't think this would work out. What's to stop someone claiming to have donated to make others think the need is already met when it hasn't been?

user updates title with amount received and the thread is locked when the goal is met

Good idea.

meta posts are no longer permitted

Bad idea. There needs to be mechanisms for community discussion.

Just woke up, might have more thoughts later.

IMO as someone who frequents the mutual_aid community when I can, we should not be policing posters there with respect to how much they've received or how much they can ask for. A consequence of this being an anonymous online community is that there's no way to know whether someone is being honest, and that is something we should just accept. Others have said this, and I agree with it: if you want to know you're helping someone who needs it, join a local org.

Potentially a limit to the number of posts could be helpful. However, I understand why people desperate for help would make posts in a short period of time. I would leave that one to people in the comm who need help.

Meta posts calling out other users feels too much like a witch hunt and I believe it's unproductive (for the reasons mentioned in paragraph 1). I feel like mods should handle grievances like that if we choose to handle it at all.

• users can post 3 times a week, asks no more than 100$ each post --Imagine walking up to someone homeless and desperate on the street holding a sign that reads "homeless and hungry anything helps" and saying "You've been here every day this week, you can't get anymore aid, you need to leave." That's what this reads like. Limit posts to once a day if you really want to regulate the comm this much, but let the people giving decide the amount. Change the format to require labels like "need for long-term" or something but this just feels like overstepping and a good way to further alienate people who can and want to give more.

• display name is changed to "emergency aid" --pedantic and unnecessary, just avoid the struggle session and keep the comm as it is with the added weekly advice/non-monetary aid posts or something

• users communicate if they are open to non monetary resources (local aid groups, etc.) --people should ask in the comments before offering advice, the posters shouldn't have to add this, it should be a given that unless explicitly asked commenters should just shut the fuck up and move on or wait for a thread where advice is meant to be posted

• user requests aid, amount requested in title using [$0/$x] format --this is fine but it has the potential for alienating those who can only give a small amount or stopping those who could give more from doing so when it should be up to the person giving how much they want to contribute, it's none of the community's business how much is being given

• users donate and report the post with the amount donated, mods note it or report it with a message indicating they donated so a mod can comment --it's none of the community's business how much is being given, have the OP update the post title and say thanks or if they're good or not or lock it after 72hrs or something, this just feels like such a huge overstep

• user updates title with amount received and the thread is locked when the goal is met --it's none of the community's business how much is being given, see previous answer

• meta posts are no longer permitted --it's on the mods to determine if this is worth it, but changing a single community rule could address the reason this was brought up

• do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount requested? No.

• do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount of posts? Daily, yes, weekly no.

• do you think mods should keep track of amounts received via user reports after donating? Absolutely not.

• do you think we change the name from mutual_aid to emergency aid? No.

• do you think we should allow meta posts? I don't think they're happening enough to warrant this.

The money limit thing is very dumb.

putting a hard limit on the amount seems like a bad idea. even if some people needing more money leads to other people not getting money (which i don't believe is the case, i believe most donaters will try to donate to a variety of people), some people are just gonna need more money than other people, some people are in more desperate situations that require constant support and some people just need one-off support.

do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount requested?

no

do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount of posts?

no

do you think mods should keep track of amounts received via user reports after donating?

no, because you have no way of actually confirming that they did donate

do you think we change the name from mutual_aid to emergency aid?

yea

do you think we should allow meta posts?

idc

Setting a limit is pointless as it's all voluntary anyway. I want people to be honest about their needs.

I think a posting limit is good as it will give a better overall view of people's needs in the comm. Those needs don't typically change throughout the week unless it's an emergency

I don't like the idea of this, it's very micromanagey

Name is fine

No meta posts, it's disgusting when people attack each others credibility here and it hurts both the accused and accusers. I don't expect people to be 100% honest here, if they feel the need to lie in order to get fed I'm not going to hold them to the same moral standard I would hold someone who's financially stable and well fed.

Mutual aid shouldn't have any strings attached to it, nor should asking for it have any limits.

I personally think meta posts are fine. If someone is adamant that another is 'scamming' - go ahead and post that shit in a separate post from their mutual aid request.

users donate and report the post with the amount donated, mods note it or report it with a message indicating they donated so a mod can comment

dumb

do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount requested?

• no there shouldn't be any sort of limits or conditions on mutual aid.

do you think there should be a weekly limit on amount of posts?

• no there shouldn't be any sort of limits or conditions on mutual aid.

do you think mods should keep track of amounts received via user reports after donating?

• no there shouldn't be any sort of limits or conditions on mutual aid.

do you think we change the name from mutual_aid to emergency aid?

• no there shouldn't be any sort of limits or conditions on mutual aid.

do you think we should allow meta posts?

• yes, if someone wants to cry about another user - let them. I don't understand what the point of this post/discussion is even about other than the 'X poster is living in his relative's driveway!!' post from a few days ago.

didn't we LITERALLY have this same discussion half a year ago when the same thing happened and decided to let meta posts be a thing but not let those people comment on the actual mutual aid post itself???

I really appreciate your points here and think they are important, especially the second one. Ive seen people in other comms talk about how they feel bad or anxious about even asking for aid because they dont feel worthy compared to other posters.