!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
Unions have been squashed for decades, they used to be 40% or so, now down to 10%.
People will blame Reagan, but let's be real they are trying to erase unions every day (and succeeding in USA).
BoTh PaRtIes are anti-union and pro-owner. Because they have the most money to "donate", there's no big conspiracy, just math. People who have no money don't contribute to political campaigns, yet free speech is money, or something.
Two words: Ronald Reagan.
Around here most of the superintendents and principles at the schools are ex coaches. They spend education money on sports. They build huge facilities that only a fraction of the students get to access. All the while teachers spend their own money to ensure their kids have the bare minimum of supplies to learn. Its abhorrent.
Remember your princiPLEs, he's your princiPAL.
I remember spellcheck gets it wrong and I don't really worry about it.
Obligatory reminder that highest paid athlete in(western) history is Gaius Appuleius Diocles a Byzantine era Chariotter.
Ridiculous pay for star athletes and celebrities is at least fair: they’re directly bringing in tons of money/profit, so why shouldn’t they be rewarded?
However they’re more a symptom than the actual problem. The real problem is the manipulative nature of sky high ticket prices, merchandising, ads, etc. how can these firms of entertainment command prices people can no longer afford, exploiting captive audiences, etc, to generate so much profit? The stars should get rewarded with a share of the profits they generate, but it’s ridiculous how much those activities generate.
In a sane world, I could afford to take my family to a game/concert/theme park, we can decide to bring in our own water, food and t-shirts only cost a little more than in the outside world, there are no ad timeouts, no region locking, no public funding, and the owners should be taxed at a higher rate than I am. But at every step, we’ve adopted anti-consumer policy, increased inequality, and it just adds up - society rewards exploitation, removes consumer protections and fairness. We’re no longer people, just products
It's interesting to look at how much money the players make in different sports, as a percentage of total sport revenue.
In the EPL (English soccer) you can find it broken down by team, with most of the top teams around 50%–70%, and league-wide they average 71%.
The IPL (Indian T20 cricket) on the other hand, players earn just 18% in the poorest teams (and even worse in the top teams).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/03/29/think-ipl-players-paid-should-paid-three-times/
The NBA (American basketball) gives about 50% (though WNBA is single-digits), NFL (gridiron football) is at 48%, and NHL (hockey) is 50%.
The NRL (Australian rugby league) is less than 30% or around 41%, depending on which source you look at, and the AFL (Aussie rules football) is at around 32%.
This is a pretty one-dimensional look at it, ignoring for example if, say, Aston Villa (which is at 96%, apparently) achieves such a fair looking score by paying a single superstar rather than fairly distributing it across their players. But it's at least a start.
Ridiculous pay for star athletes and celebrities is at least fair
Put another way, we as a society actually do spend wayyy more money on doctors, nurses, and teachers. It's just that there are many millions of people who have to split that pot of money, whereas for pro athletes there are only a few dozen or a few hundred to split that comparably smaller pot of money with.
I might have the same favorite NBA player as literally millions of people in this country. I for sure don't have the same favorite doctor or favorite teacher, though.
So if a genie showed up and said "give $1 to your favorite celebrity and give $100 to your favorite teacher," we as a society would give way more money to the teachers, but each individual teacher would receive less than each individual celebrity who gets paid under this system.
So they should the dramatically taxed and that money redistributed.
I thought anthletes are basically amateurs and only a few get famous enough to have sponsorship deals?
That and their careers are short. You forgo a normal career for like 5-10 years of trying to make it big in a major sport. Then, you get injured or replaced by someone a bit more spry. You have to save the money the give you to really make it worth it, but most just squander it because they are young and dumb and don’t realize it’s temporary.
College athletes yes (historically, this is significantly less true now)
But professional athletes, assuming the name it to the big leagues are generally very well paid even for random guys you don't know. Star athletes make millions/tens of millions per season
Why athletes? People attack athletes all the time and ignore that the team owners make $ with a B instead of an M. CEOs do far less for their organization than athletes and make far more money.
Many athletes also wreck their bodies and play with potential disability or death, while not gaining knowledge and experience for any other career, aside from coaching. And they have to retire at thirty-something at best. So having athletes presumes some kinda compensation for the rest of their lives and support for their family.
It's enough to see Muhammad Ali try to speak in interviews late in his career after he's been banged on the head too many times, to grok the tradeoff.
Was thinking about this in the context of a joke I heard in the late 90s:
What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the sea? A good start.
We didn't we have jokes like that about the billionaires; at the time people were glazing Bill Gates. It's wild because billionaires are the ones writing the laws, lawyers just act it out.
Is there a point you can find in history where we paid doctors, teachers, and nurses close to what they're worth and more than professional athletes?
It sounds like you're nostalgic for a time that never existed.
There was definitely a time when professional athlete was hardly a career, and certainly not well paid. So for a time teachers and healthcare workers got paid more than athletes.
You really have to split it up. Teachers and nurses have always been paid pretty poorly. They were traditionally female only professions, and expected only to work until married or what not. Or they were nuns, and didn't get paid directly. Doctors of course, being traditionally male only got paid a lot better. But I agree that for most of human history, professional athletes were just rich peoples kids. They weren't even getting paid most likely. It would be interesting to try and figure out who the first true professional athlete was. Someone who wasn't born into money, and actually got paid a living wage.
I mean if you back to the Greeks and Roman's, they also had some big payouts for sporting events.
They used those events for military readiness. The skills that the athletes trained for were the same ones needed by soldiers.
Gladiators were not soldiers. Some were the equivalent of American Wrestling stars.
I was thinking more about Olympians. The Romans had a standing army so they didn't need that sort of thing as much.
If you were lucky, you'd get the lion's share
In the CFL (Canadian Football League) the players don’t make more than $100,000/yr generally, and the good ones get scooped up to the NFL.
OP is also only comparing top earners. For every athlete who earns millions, there's probably hundreds of athletes who make around median income or less - it's the kind of career where people will keep doing it even if it pays barely enough to pay the bills. There are a lot of doctors who make more than the poorer professional athletes, and doctors don't age out.
Is pretty meaningless to look at top earners.
Some specialist doctors are making a million dollars a year, but the average is closer to $375,000.
Much like musicians, there are huge numbers of "professional" athletes that are not making a living wage. The low end for medical doctors is plenty to survive.
I think it's distasteful when people complain about people earning six figures not getting as much as others, while we have people dying in the streets from capitalistic poverty.
People die in the streets under socialism and communism as well. You understand this, right?
Look up Ronald Reagan's administration.
lol
Was gonna say "IDK, but I am willing to bet it was during Reagan's presidency" and this is the first comment I see.
I don’t know about athletes, but for us normies, it was the 1980’s with Reaganomics, early recession, rising inequality, “greed is good” culture, heightened Cold War tensions, the emergence of the AIDS crisis, and societal shifts towards consumerism. The 80’s was also a time of technological boom with computers, MTV, and cultural dynamism, with critiques often focusing on increased individualism, materialism, and social challenges.
A lot of jackass answers in here but this is the answer to the spirit of the question.
Reaganomics or it's other name "trickle down" economics is what you want to start looking into.
Adam Ruins Every….no wait. Reagan Ruined Evening.
I think the seeds may have been planted with the radio. Once athletes became celebrities it was only a matter of time. I know little about baseball, but even I know who Babe Ruth was, who played into the 1930s. TV blowing up in the 40s added an additional layer of connecting the names to the faces. This eventually gave way for MTV to come into the mix creating the beginnings of modern pop culture.
I’m not sure why OP or other comments are so hung up on the Athlete part? One of the most famous and wealthiest athletes of all time was a Roman charioteer. Gaius Appuleius Diocles was a celebrity across empires and predated doctors, Jesus and the radio. The only people that got paid more than Gaius were landowners/lords, which is still true to this day.
I say it was around 1998 when George W. Bush meet with Harambe’s mom.
I don't think doctors fit in that group. They are paid well, and respected, far more than nurses on both accounts.
Doctors are paid like crap. Physicians are paid very well.
Assuming your talking about the top line players making millions, because your median professional athlete is barely covering there costs if you include athletes outside of the big 5 sports in the US and those outside of the top flight leagues. Then like any performer embedded in the monoculture it happened when mass media became a thing.
Once your able to sell discs, tapes, TV ads on a mass scale with extremely low marginal cost anyone with a claim to that media property can make millions off of it.
A doctor can't treat millions of people at the same time. A teacher can't effectively teach millions of people a day. Taylor Swift and shohei ohtani can entertain 10s of thousands of people in a stadium at a time and millions at any moment through streaming.
The top comments seem to have a lot of people from the US seem to be ignoring the rest of the world exists and screaming Reagan (the US president from 1981-1989). I honestly don't know how accurate that is but it is obviously not nuanced and probably biased by anti-Trump sentiment
I'm not sure how accurate this article is either but it mentions the salary cap for soccer in England being removed in 1960 and that leading to a rapid increase in wages there.
https://www.salaryleaks.com/blogs/average-salary-premier-league-history
A quick scan of the internet led me to this chart that compares top soccer players to median income in (for some reason) the US
From: https://www.expensivity.com/soccer-salary-inflation/
Here's another chart from the same article for how many times a US families income a top international player makes (and like the England article the 60s look to be exponential growth, then noise in the 70s then pretty clear from the 80s):
A lot of that analysis has space for biases but I'm pretty sure that modern large sports wages predate Reagan but also that the people mentioning rich athletes in Roman times are a bit off too
Complaining about athletes just makes it sound petty. Athletes are just employees, if you're going to complain, complain about the athletes' and nurses' employers. Rich people never gave a flying fuck about their employees, and underfunded schools are a feature for them, too.