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no! not only is it explicitly anticommunist, it's a freakin' both sides meme! it's the hallmark of a radicalizing lib that hasn't done any reading but "feels very strongly" about the issue and also feels very strongly when voices in their feed tell them they should read history before adopting self-defeating symbols
That SPD poster makes it pretty clear that we shouldn't.
These antifascist symbols will suffice.
There's no need to use reheated liberal anti-communism. Besides, people already know the antifa symbol with the flags because that's the symbol that actual anti-fascists use in the real world.
the three arrows is a hate symbol as far as I'm concerned. I tear it down every time I see it on a sticker somewhere
the three arrows is a hate symbol
It is? That's news to me. I've always though it was an anti-fascist symbol.
Edit: thanks all for the perspectives
Equating anything the Bolsheviks (or communists more broadly) ever did to the Nazis or monarchs requires such an extraordinary degree of bad faith false ~~dichotomy~~ equivalence that you're not worth my time even explaining why that's borderline holocaust denialism. If you're explicitly anticommunist you're just another fascist to me
That's a "false equivalence." A "false dichotomy" is when you claim there are only two options when more exist.
It's a succdem symbol, but the succdem also got owned during fascist occupation so it became somewhat of an antifascist symbol
succdems are the moderate wing of fascism
the succs opened up the path to fascism and the german succs are basically 100% responsible for the Nazi takeover
Any time I've seen a Bluesky three arrows pfp - their bio always has shit like "Moderate. Realist. No far right. No far left..." It might as well read "I am a big dipshit horseshoe theorist." And for some other people at Bluesky being anti-communist via euphemism is perfectly acceptable.
That's just their way of saying "I am politically illiterate and know nothing about anything, and my entire historical knowledge comes from reddit memes"
It was the symbol of the Iron Front, who effectively never fought and just existed on paper to threaten the Red Front and later Antifa. it was a symbol of reactionaries who would only even consider taking up arms against Communists, but couldn't even do that and instead relied on their Green Police
I have a few copypasta/effort posts about this but the answer is FUCK NO
As a reaction to the Harzburg Front and the »March of 100,000«, the Reichsbanner, SPD, General German Trade Union Confederation (ADGB), General Employees’ Association (Afa-Bund) and workers’ gymnastics and Sportbund (ATSB) formed the "Iron Front" on December 16, 1931. Her symbol was three from top right to arrows pointing to the lower left, each shattering a crown, a swastika, and a hammer and sickle. The Iron Front therefore also saw itself as an anti-communist organization.
There was no actual membership. Rather, the Iron Front represented an attempt to to initiate a movement of pro-republic forces. Today they would probably be more democratic as a concerted action identify organizations against extremism
During the first months of its existence, the Iron Front was popularized through large-scale events. There were so-called "preparation weeks" in which activists could write their names in "iron books." Trade unionists formed "hammer groups" in order to be able to act militantly in an emergency. In their propaganda appeared the Iron Front as a decisive force to protect the republic. In fact, their activities focused on publicly effective self-portrayals.
Meanwhile, the Nazis were gaining ground. Hitler wanted on April 10, 1932 in the election to the Reich President against Paul von Hindenburg and Ernst Thälmann, but he was still stateless. The German The Braunschweig government procured him citizenship by appointing him to the government council on February 25, 1932 in Berlin - a post that Hitler, incidentally, never took up. However, the election to the Reich President was decided by supported by the SPD, German nationalist Paul von Hindenburg for himself.
The day after Hitler was made chancellor, the standard bearers of this emblem did this
The KPD asked the Iron Front, the SPD, the general trade union association ADGB and their organisations, and the Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold to declare a general strike against Hitler. The Iron Front decline, issued a call on February 2 to "all comrades of the Reichsbanner and the Iron Front", warning against participating in "wild actions organised by irresponsible people", and exhorted members to "turn all Iron Front events into powerful rallies for freedom".
The attempt to use the Three Arrows is a restoration of the very liberal chauvinism that led to Hitler winning. It is a symbol of anti-communism and the people who try to restore it have largely been naive or downright dangerous. Oppose the Iron Front then and now.
We've been having this fight with neo-Iron Front/ironfrontusa people for years here https://hexbear.net/post/157623?scrollToComments=false
This is a symbol literally used by the opposition to Antifa. It is not, nor has it ever been anti-fascist. And if we wanted to use it, we should then cease using the two flags Antifascist Action emblem because using both is a denigration of the fallen.
RoteFront and Antifa comrades died fighting this shit.
AWAY WITH THE LIES OF THE IRON FRONT THE DECEIVERS OF THE PROLETARIAT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn4-9G6azgw
No it is a fascist symbol by being anti-communist.
You're joking, right? The poster literally says "against Hitler and Thälmann", equating communists to fascists as if they hadn't literally saved Europe (including Germany itself) from Nazism.
As everyone else has said, no, we should not. But with that out of the way, I'm surprised the anti-tankie crowd hasn't adopted it to a much greater degree than the occasional reference. Like some of the other lemmy instances that make being "against tankies" their entire identity I would have thought would love to spam that symbol. Maybe I shouldn't be giving them ideas if they happen to see this thread.
My first encounter with "3 arrows down" and what it meant was that early (c.2018) breadtuber who used it as his name, or his channel name anyway. I think he turned out to be a piece of shit by almost anyone's standards (I forget what it was, but wasn't there some scandal that ended his breadtube career?), and I wonder how much that poisoned the well for other anti-tankie "leftists" to want to use it. May have had nothing to do with it, but if so, highly critical support.
some scandal that ended his breadtube career
(I assume.)
It would be kind of funny to use it and replace the communist symbol with NATO.
The USSR no longer exists so there is an open spot.
I'm surprised the anti-tankie crowd hasn't adopted it to a much greater degree than the occasional reference.
While the Liberals are largely ignorant about history, I think categorizing the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany as the same thing is a bridge too far even for them. This is why they focus on abstract critiques like "authoritarianism" or "totalitarianism." These allow you to discard any alternative to the status quo without having to argue that the people who liberated Auschwitz are exactly the same as the people who built it.
edit before I read purpleworm's reply:
Most of the time when Liberals are shitting on Communism and making grossly ahistorical claims (e.g. calling Putin or Trump a Communist), they are operating in the realm of rhetoric. The history is immaterial to them. They know from decades of programming that Communist is a cheap insult and they'll use it whenever a strained analogy presents itself.
The type of disillusioned Liberal who is actually searching for the point where the United States strayed from the path righteousness, the type of Liberal who would use a symbol like this to differentiate themselves from the standard bearers of American decay, is not operating on this level of slop rhetoric.
tbf a lot of people do still say exactly that, equivocating between Soviet antisemitism and Nazi antisemitism and accusing the Soviets of just continuing to run the camps and so on.
I haven't see them be asked what they meant by the latter and they don't exactly cite sources, but I think they're referring to the camps continuing to be used as temporary housing for the inmates during the end of the war and in its immediate aftermath, which is a pretty heinous way to mislead people.
Like some of the other lemmy instances that make being "against tankies" their entire identity I would have thought would love to spam that symbol.
They don't use it because it's a lib talking point that the SPD were willing to form a united front but the dogmatic Stalinist authoritarian KPD refused to play along which cause the Nazis to consolidate power. They then segue this to how you should not repeat history by voting for some neoliberal ghoul.
Don't repeat history! Vote for Hindenburg!
Three Arrows is apparently still going (just uploads very infrequently). idr any scandal but I never followed him very closely. He just seemed like a generic lib historian, honestly.
Only if that's German for 'pick one, shoot two'
The 3 arrows are Marry, Fuck, Kill.
I'll marry communism, kill fascism, and fuck the monarchy (I actually don't even know what that third thing is)
There are three dragons, one only lies, one only tells the truth, and one is royalty.
Should we use anti-communist symbols of the freikorps rosa-killers? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no
The three arrows is the "do you condemn Hamas?" of 1930s Germany. A triangulated performative liberalism that opposes liberation and those actually fighting fascists.
Nah
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A select start
...is what i'd propose for an alternative. 99 lives for the anti fascist movement
This rips, someone with artistic skills should render the in the style of the three arrows, as a bit
Thanks for making this thread, it reminded me to change my avatar since it was three arrows falgsc
Should we be using the Sonnenrad? /s
Why the fook would you do that? Only socdems would equate their social chauvinist anti-Communism to that of 'opposing' Nazism and Monarchism
in my heart the anarchist symbol and flag functions as antifascist
Anarchist symbol is fine. Communist symbol is fine. Antifa symbol is fine.
Rosa-killer symbol is not.
Im a big fan of down, down, up.
The real anti-fascist konami code
no
Of course not, it's a sign of political illiteracy or anti-communism (most likely both).
I like to use this one (hence it being my profile banner), for image description please see my profile.
Schrodinger's arrows.
The meaning of what they represent depends on who you're talking to.
Perfect for liberals.